Burm Had IBD--Had to Euthanize It.

[Skiploder]

Just wanted to post this, I was reading up more on IBD and paramyxovirus, and I found this: "Burmese pythons generally show signs of central nervous system disease without showing the respiratory signs. Regurgitation is not usually seen in Burmese pythons" http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptil...y-disease.aspx

My Burm never regurgitated and never really even showed signs of an RI. That day he did show me signs of CNS disease. I'm trying to do some research to see if I can try to figure out what he could have had.

Tiff:

This means absolutely nothing. I can list diseases on both hands that would present the symptoms your burm had.

You can't just assume IBD. IBD is a disease with a myriad of symptoms - most of which overlap with other diseases.

The only way you are going to know what he had is by getting a necropsy done.

Wolfy already stated that the very fact that he was undernourished and dehydrated could have caused the neurological symptoms.

[CoolioTiffany]

Tiff:

This means absolutely nothing. I can list diseases on both hands that would present the symptoms your burm had.

You can't just assume IBD. IBD is a disease with a myriad of symptoms - most of which overlap with other diseases.

The only way you are going to know what he had is by getting a necropsy done.

Wolfy already stated that the very fact that he was undernourished and dehydrated could have caused the neurological symptoms.

Yes, I know it means nothing but it just can give me an idea of what could have caused it. I'm seeing other diseases that have the same symptoms, so maybe it couldn't have been IBD. Although we did get in many diseased snakes from the seizure so that Burm could have gotten at least something.

I'm unsure why he had stopped eating in the first place. All the others were housed the same way and had the same everything, and every one of them ate besides him.

[CoolioTiffany]

This morning our Albino Burmese python "Butters" died. Last night it showed the same symptoms as my Burm did, head & neck spinning/twisting, open mouthed--spinning around, head tremors.

Butters was a real nice girl, we are all so sad about it happening. From what I was told, the two Rattlesnakes that were on the shelves below Butters were the FIRST ones showing the exact same symptoms, then everything else started to come down with it.

Even though this will probably tell me nothing as Skiploder said, I read Reptile Channel's information about paramyxovirus, and it states this: "Paramyxovirus is most common in vipers, but it is occasionally found in other snake species." Rattlesnakes are vipers, and a couple of our other vipers had died mysteriously too (all we know is they did not want to eat after a while).

So possibly the Rattlesnakes could have had it first, and then passed it on to our other snakes? The Texas seizure snakes were no where even close to where the Rattlesnakes and venomous snakes were, they were probably 20-30 feet apart from each other.

Not trying to get anyone mad that I keep assuming the worst diseases, but I'm just trying to think of the possibilities. Next time I'm there I'll give them a printed out sheet on paramyxovirus and tell them to do a necropsy on the next snake who shows signs of head tremors and the head spinning like Butters and the other snakes did, and to NOT freeze the snake.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Check for RIs, too--paramyxovirus is usually primarily respiratory, with neurological being secondary, whereas IBD is usually primarily neurological.

It's very important to determine which it is, and from what you described, it certainly sounds like one of them. IBD is always deadly, while paramyxo has a fatality rate as low as 30% with prompt and diligent supportive care. Once recovered, they're immune, and there's no evidence of carriers (wrong type of virus, and none have been found), so there is no need to euthanize with paramyxo--just strict quarantine of any animal with RI or neuro signs, and supportive care.

There are also less common nasty bugs like rhabdovirus and reoviruses that can cause these symptoms and deaths.

Yes, the little burn could have had neuro signs due to malnutrition, etc...but given the current situation, it seems unlikely.

Some of the deadly neuro viruses are airborne. Others can be transmitted through contact and transfer, like the common cold. Some, like IBD, are believed to be spread by mites.

Basically, if you can identify it as paramyxovirus, the snakes may stand a chance. If it's IBD or one of the others, well, any snake that shows symptoms should be euthanized immediately.
They'll all have to be quarantined from contact with any other snakes for at least a year, regardless of which it is. Including animals that show no symptoms. They shouldn't be adopted out to anyhow who has animals already. Paramyxo can take up to a year to incubate, and the incubation times for the others aren't well known.

[5snakes]

This is a very sad thing to hear. Understanding you have the best intentions of fostering these animals, sometimes we come across a sick animal. I am surprised that none noticed this poor animal`s misfortune before you took it home. Snakes have a very slow metabolism, therefore, taking a long time to show that degree of sickness. I am very sorry of what you had to go through by freezing this snake to put him down...not to sound mean or hurtful, but be for you take another animal in, maybe you should make sure that you have the $ put aside just in case. this way the euthanizing of another unfortunate animal won`t be so horrible. Maybe you could make a deal with these people that if you come across another sick animal, and you have to make that decision again, that they would do it properly.
I see you have taken a lot of grief for posting this, and I`m sure that you only had the best intentions and I applaud you for trying to help.
Keep your chin up, but please try to be more prepared for this the next time.
Sincerely, 5snakes

[jallenfl]

Never bring home sick animals... If this snake was at a shelter already, WHY DID YOU BRING IT HOME? I know you said to feed it but it could have been fed their instead of your home. Changing the enviroment was surely not going to get the snake eating for you.

Now I would take all the animals that were in the same room and have them checked by a VET. If you bring disease into your home you will pay for it in the long run.

Quarantine starts all over for every animal in the room. The is no room for excuses in saying that one animal was not as close as another. The only thing you can do is look at it in a perspective that if it is a virus/disease you brought home you gave it to all of your animals. They didnt deserve this treatment.

I would purchase a few jugs of 91% isopropyl alcohol and start spraying everything till it drips. After everything is sprayed take the enviroment this snake was in and bag it 2-3 times and walk it straight to the curb. Once all of this has been done I would start on every other animal you had housed within 25' ft of this animal and assume they are just as bad now. I am sorry to bust your bubble but you may have done more harm than good. As far as the snakes you already had before the burm. Surgical grade only.

I am not busting your balls on this matter but please leave the snakes at the shelter. I have seen to many cases where people infect their whole collection with one rescue they had to have because they felt bad. I have also seen to many rescues and they dont practice safety and sterilizing when it comes to the animals in their facilities...

J

[5snakes]

I think that this coolioTiffany was trying to help and rescue animals in need. She just needed to quarantine this animal before putting in with her other snakes. I believe she was trying to do a good thing and that not enough people do what I think she is trying to do. Come on guys, don`t you feel bad for her situation? I do. Like I said, I applaud her efforts, but try to remember to QUARANTINE the animal you bring home, first. If more people did what she is trying to do, there would be no need for snakes in shelters. As that also maddens me, I praise the people that try to help bring them back to health so they are adoptable again. This takes me into a whole other conversation about these big franchise stores selling animals to people WITH NO INFORMATION. this is why we have snakes in shelters in the first place.