Starting small breeding colony???

[xxxxdopeyxxxx]

I currently became the owner of 2 female rats (one fancy rat and one dumbo). I have them housed in cage 17" x 30" and 17" high. I would like to start breeding to sustain my collection of 2 bps and help out my buddies with any extra. I have a few questions about it tho.

1. What type of male rat would be best
2. Should I separate the females with some wire running down the center of the cage?
3. Can I just put the male in the the females and remove him when they are pregnant?

Thank you in advance for all of your help.

[Michelle.C]

I currently became the owner of 2 female rats (one fancy rat and one dumbo). I have them housed in cage 17" x 30" and 17" high. I would like to start breeding to sustain my collection of 2 bps and help out my buddies with any extra. I have a few questions about it tho.

1. What type of male rat would be best
2. Should I separate the females with some wire running down the center of the cage?
3. Can I just put the male in the the females and remove him when they are pregnant?

Thank you in advance for all of your help.

1. One that hasn't been neutered. They aren't the best reproducers if they don't have their junk intact. Otherwise, any kind. Rats are prolific. Just go with one you like.

2. Housing a pair of females together is fine. They will help each other care for the young and keep each other company. I like to breed my females a few weeks apart that are being housed together though. That way you have less issues with a female baby hogging.

3. Some people run harems, not removing the males at all, but I disagree with this method (for the most part). You aren't giving your female a break in between pregnancies and she won't have as many offspring and will die much younger. Just place the male in with the female you want to breed for one week or until you notice her being pregnant. Then put him in his own enclosure, preferably with another male so he doesn't get lonely.

Also, to add something. If you are looking to save money, you will be unsuccessful only breeding for two snakes. If you are aware of that fact, it's another fun aspect of keeping snakes that many enjoy.

[tomfromtheshade]

I had a whole long answer typed out here, but it wasnt the nicest. Almost all of that info is wrong. When I have more time I will get back here and type out a new post.

[Michelle.C]

I had a whole long answer typed out here, but it wasnt the nicest. Almost all of that info is wrong. When I have more time I will get back here and type out a new post.

I read your post before you edited it and I beg to differ on some of it. I have been raising and breeding rats for over 10 years now, not as feeders, but pets.

You might have issues with feeder breeder males fighting with each other, but well socialized males will never have a serious fight. Keeping rats in a harem style group is VERY stressful to the females.

As far as letting a pair of females raise their young together, 99% of the breeders do it and it works perfectly. I personally let my females raise their young individually (or two weeks apart). I just had a female drop 28 young and another 17. I didn't lose one. Out of all of the years I've been raising rats, I've lost less than ten young. Most due to a mother abandoning her young. Which might I add, hasn't happened since spacing the litters two weeks apart.

Genetic wise, I said "one he liked". Meaning that color, dumbos, coats, etc do not produce more young. It's often said that albinos produce more, but I've noticed I get larger litters from my self rats. I also wouldn't imagine him going to the pet store picking out the most aggressive male they had. Yes, certain rats carry genetic dispositions. That being said, I've raised some of the sweetest babies from rats that were aggressive.

To each their own.

[suzuki4life]

Once again, the answer depends if you plan to breed feeders or pets....

for true breeders, "harem style" works fine and the rats will live plenty long enough to be adult feeders at the end of their productive life which btw is the same span as a rats that is given breaks...

All giving breaks does is reduce the number or liters a rats can produce.

[Michelle.C]

Once again, the answer depends if you plan to breed feeders or pets....

for true breeders, "harem style" works fine and the rats will live plenty long enough to be adult feeders at the end of their productive life which btw is the same span as a rats that is given breaks...

All giving breaks does is reduce the number or liters a rats can produce.

I agree, it does come down to pet vs feeder breeder, but isn't there somewhere in the middle? When rodents are used as feeder breeders yet have an excellent quality of life. I know hobbyist that do it both ways, and some in the middle. The rats are kept as borderline pets and the young are used as food.

That being said, a rat that is bred in a harem group will have the same reproductive life span as one that is given breaks. They will generally not have the same lifespan though. While I've only bred pets for most of my rodent owning years, I used to work at a facility who bred rats in mass (strictly feeder purposes). They bred harem and generally, most females had much shorter lifespans than a normal rat. Even once they were retired and no longer producing (or limited production), most didn't make it to this age. I'd guess the average lifespan was around 1 1/2 years and less. Not saying all breeders treated as harem breeders work out this way, but this was just my experience and what several others have relayed to me.

I've also noticed smaller litter sizes from harem groups, but I guess it all works out at around the same numbers, seeing as you are having litters more often with the harem group.

But, I agree. It's all about if the OP is wanting strictly feeders, or borderline pets. There are unlimited ways to accomplish the same goal.

[suzuki4life]

I agree, it does come down to pet vs feeder breeder, but isn't there somewhere in the middle? When rodents are used as feeder breeders yet have an excellent quality of life. I know hobbyist that do it both ways, and some in the middle. The rats are kept as borderline pets and the young are used as food.

That being said, a rat that is bred in a harem group will have the same reproductive life span as one that is given breaks. They will generally not have the same lifespan though. While I've only bred pets for most of my rodent owning years, I used to work at a facility who bred rats in mass (strictly feeder purposes). They bred harem and generally, most females had much shorter lifespans than a normal rat. Even once they were retired and no longer producing (or limited production), most didn't make it to this age. I'd guess the average lifespan was around 1 1/2 years and less. Not saying all breeders treated as harem breeders work out this way, but this was just my experience and what several others have relayed to me.

I've also noticed smaller litter sizes from harem groups, but I guess it all works out at around the same numbers, seeing as you are having litters more often with the harem group.

But, I agree. It's all about if the OP is wanting strictly feeders, or borderline pets. There are unlimited ways to accomplish the same goal.

I disagree of course. Rats have roughly a 15-20 month "window" of optimum breeding life. If you allow for pregnancy, nursing and a rest period. You just used over three months for ONE litter. In the same three months, rats under my care would be working on their third litter. So even if you produce and sustain 200% more offspring than I can per litter, you are producing less than 1/3 of the litters.

[Michelle.C]

I disagree of course. Rats have roughly a 15-20 month "window" of optimum breeding life. If you allow for pregnancy, nursing and a rest period. You just used over three months for ONE litter. In the same three months, rats under my care would be working on their third litter. So even if you produce and sustain 200% more offspring than I can per litter, you are producing less than 1/3 of the litters.

Again, you were correct in your first post. It comes down to if you are breeding for strictly feeders, pets or somewhere in the middle. I've never bred for strictly feeders. I worked at a place that did, but didn't personally ever use these methods. I did breed somewhere in the middle (for feeders, but treated them like pets). Most strictly feeder breeders are retired at 12-15 months and fed off because production becomes lower.

But, I'll agree to disagree. We all have our methods and since we are obviously breeding for different reasons, it's all good.

[suzuki4life]

Again, you were correct in your first post. It comes down to if you are breeding for strictly feeders, pets or somewhere in the middle. I've never bred for strictly feeders. I worked at a place that did, but didn't personally ever use these methods. I did breed somewhere in the middle (for feeders, but treated them like pets). Most strictly feeder breeders are retired at 12-15 months and fed off because production becomes lower.

But, I'll agree to disagree. We all have our methods and since we are obviously breeding for different reasons, it's all good.

okay so under your logic....


Most strictly feeder breeders are retired at 12-15 months and fed off because production becomes lower.

if you rest them and allow them to nurse you will produce a litter once every 3.5-4 months....

add to that your rat needs to be ATLEAST 3-4 months old before it will ever even deliver a litter...

so you feed a rat to adulthood to produce TWO-THREE litters during its lifetime?


You realize that even with nursing tubs and keeping the female separate during their gestation cycles etc they rarely actually ever yield a litter over 15 beyond weaning age?

So in your plan, you want to feed a female rat for 15 months to produce 45 offspring?

is this correct?

[Michelle.C]

Hmmm, I thought I said that I did indeed agree with the certain factors. Such as I am breeding as pet only and you are breeding for strictly feeders.

That being said, most of my rats throw more than 15 young (more like 22 is an average) and all (with limited exception) reach weaned and past.

As far as giving them breaks, it depends on the break you give them. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with letting a male breed a female right after giving birth to a litter. I've seen breeders that give them 2 weeks and then breed them again.

And I said feeder breeder produce 12-15 months. With the breeders I know that give females breaks, I've seen these females produce large litters at 18 months and over.

But again, whatever works for you.