Rack temperature questions.

[SGB_74]

ok guys this past week ive been exchanging emails with animal plastics in regards to purchasing a new rack. the thing is from my understanding these racks only come with a 3" strip of flexwatt to heat the rack, so i took it upon myself to inquire about "extra" heating such as running an 11" piece of flexwatt throughout the rack instead of a 3", well i was told that doing so would weaken the shelf being as though the flexwatt is recessed into the shelves so another option was to run a second strip of 3" flexwatt through the rack, now creating a 6" basking area for my animals. the things i would like to get from you guys are, does this seem like overkill for an enclosed rack system? theres two reasons why im trying to get the extra heat, one of them being that i'd prefer to have my animals on a wide enough basking area as oppose to a small strip and two would be to raise ambient temps within the tub. from my understanding an enclosed rack system holds heat and humidity much better than an open air rack system but in my situation the room that i house my animals in has fluctuating temps which drop between the 50's and 70's. so is there a certain room temp you need to have your room set to to in order to have proper ambient air temps? or can i get by without having that second strip of flexwatt installed and housing my animals in a room with such varying temps and the original 3" strip of flexwatt installed. i mean is that one strip that powerful to heat the air up to 80-82 degrees on its own or would i need my room to be at a certain temp to acquire such temperatures? i appreciate any and all info you guys have to share.

[Kaorte]

A second strip of flexwatt won't really do much for your ambient temperature. If it gets into the 50's in the room the rack is in, you are going to have problems.

The flexwatt doesn't really heat the air at all. It heats surfaces. I try to keep my room above 75* at all times. That way the ambient temp in the tub is never lower than 75*.

[SGB_74]

well im currently using a space heater in the room to heat the air, so if purchasing a rack system is still going to require me to run the space heater then it seems pretty pointless in doing so...i was always under the impression that since the rack was enclosed the heat generated by the flexwatt would create a thermal gradient and in doing so would raise ambient temps.

[Jeremy78]

Wow!!!!!
The room gets to 50*F!!! The reason you only want 3" is because you want your snake to be able together away incas it heats up to much. Flexwatt can melt your tubs if your thermostat goes for a loop.
But if the room drops below 70*F I'd say you need that heater going.

[SGB_74]

the room is in the garage, its somewhat of a sectional built into the garage. so if i didnt heat the room with the heater it could possibly get that low. at the moment its about 82.

[Danounet]

I think as long as the room is above 70 it will be ok. The rack does make it warmer in the tubs, but if the room drops to 50. No rack will bring ambient temps inside the tub to above 75.

[SGB_74]

my goal was to just purchase a rack and be done with the heater. but it seems as though i'd need both heating elements to properly house my animals. so i'd rather just heat the room as VPI does and not worry about racks and flexwatt all together then. thanks for all the input guys.

[Kaorte]

Well either way you are still going to need a strip of flexwatt to create a hot spot. If you just heat the room, you wouldn't be giving the snake a thermal gradient.

I would say get the rack. It will be more convenient in the long run.

[SGB_74]

yea i understand what you're sayin and i do want to get the rack but man i think my bill is gonna be out the roof it already costs enough to run the heater LOL now a heater and a rack. i understand the thermal gradient situation but when emailing VPI they emailed me back stating

"We don't have to heat or cool very much (most of the year, anyway) to keep our rooms at 78 at night and 80 in the day. We have found that our snakes in our building do best at those temps without any additional basking heat.

We have used heat tapes and heat pads to create substrate-heated basking areas in the past. However, after about 10 years of experimentation we realized that our snakes simply do better without any supplemental heat. The one exception is that we do provide post-ovulatory gravid boas and pythons with substrate heat, not too much, but an area of heated cage floor that's about 86 to 89 degrees.

There are several problems with substrate heat, but the most common problem of which most keepers are unaware is that substrate heat significantly raises the temperature of the air in most cages. This can cause a variety of problems relating to feeding and breeding. One way to avoid the problem is to not leave substrate heat turned on all day--put it on a timer and use it only a couple of hours daily.

We have had no problems doing as we have done. We have good growth and excellent breeding. We do feed the snakes less often and smaller meals than when we kept them warmer, but that also means they defecate less often--it's all good!"

Dave

so i guess the "mumbo jumbo" about basking spots isnt really a necessity unless you have a gravid female, which i dont have intentions on breeding so it wouldnt apply to me. still i'll check into a rack system, because i am tired of stacking and unstacking these tubs like building blocks LOL

[dr del]

Hi,

There are many ways these animals can be kept.

Each one has different conditions that need to be met for it to work for the animal though.

We recommend the system we do for a couple of basic reasons;

It will work to keep your animal alive and healthy through the first, most intense, learning period. It doesn't rely on you being able to spot subtle clues that all is not well or know how to quickly fix problems in an emergency.

It can be created with only a small financial outlay - this is mainly because a lot of people get sold a lot of very expensive junk when they buy a snake from a bad petstore and may have limited funds left for the more important items nobody told them they needed.

So we explain a system that lets the snake have access to the temp range it might need to cover most eventualities, the humidity requirements for shedding and a feeding regime that will make it relatively simple to work out how much the snake needs to grow and thrive.

The big breeders and people who have the experience to spot the subtle clues to any problems however are able to change the systems they use and know if it was for the better or worse before it causes the animal any serious problems.

Dave and Tracy Barker know more about these animals than I probably ever will if I live to be a hundred.

They know how to make their system work and monitor it through observation constantly.

The part of his email I thought was important that you did not seem to mention was the line;

We do feed the snakes less often and smaller meals than when we kept them warmer, but that also means they defecate less often--it's all good!"

Now, I'm assuming, this is because the different heat levels significantly affect the digestive process.

That process is essentially a race between the animal digesting the prey and the prey rotting inside the animal - if digestion slows a larger meal may decompose to such a level the snake either regurges it or suffers serious problems.

If the snakes body temperature is lower then pretty much every system will be running at a different rate than those seen with our system - this coupled with the above is probably also a major factor in the decision to feed less often and the resulting reduction of waste.

Now re-consider this line from your post;

so i guess the "mumbo jumbo" about basking spots isnt really a necessity unless you have a gravid female, which i dont have intentions on breeding so it wouldnt apply to me.

You do, hopefully, have intentions of feeding the animal.

If you decided to use their system without understanding all the other factors that have to be changed to make it work then you could end up with every snake regurging or bloating on you. Or simply refusing to eat.

There is no "mumbo jumbo" involved - he plainly told you he spent ten years experimenting to arrive at this method. Before trying to copy his sytem you really do need to ask him a lot of questions to make sure you understand not only the basic idea but the concepts and reasons behind it and how to determine if it either is or isn't working for your animals before it becomes a problem.

In short it's not if you can build a rack, read a thermometer and buy a snake that is the determining factor but you looking yourself in the eye and asking if you are Dave Barker enough to make it work.


dr del