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  1. #1
    Registered User ralphdp21's Avatar
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    Question calculating price based on het. %?

    Title kind speaks for itself.

    But lets say I have a

    Spider 50% het. albino Male
    x
    Pastel 100% het. axanthic 50% het. ghost Female

    what would the odds of the offspring be?

    3.13%: Normal
    3.13%: Het Axanthic
    3.13%: Pastel
    3.13%: Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Axanthic, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Axanthic, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Axanthic, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Axanthic
    3.13%: Het Albino, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Axanthic, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Spider
    3.13%: Spider, Het Axanthic
    3.13%: Spider, Pastel
    3.13%: Spider, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Spider, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Spider, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Spider, Het Axanthic, Pastel
    3.13%: Spider, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Axanthic
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Ghost, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Axanthic, Pastel
    3.13%: Het Albino, Spider, Het Axanthic, Het Ghost, Pastel

    which should translate:
    25% of Normals all 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Pastels all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Spiders all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Spider Pastels all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino

    So if I lets say get one of each in the clutch:
    Spider
    Pastel
    and a
    Spider Pastel

    Lets say I sell a Spider Pastel that came out the clutch.
    Is it considered a Spider Pastel 50% het Axanthic, 50% het. Ghost, 50% het. Albino, or would I simply use the initial 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino?

    I'm sure the odds are correct, but how does it usually affect the price of the animal?
    I want to properly learn how to calculate prices with recessive genes.
    I think I have a good understanding but I want to be sure.


    Any feedback would greatly be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Last edited by ralphdp21; 04-23-2010 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User aureptiles's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    I think at this point, the odds are too low to justify any kind of price increase. You'd essentially be selling an animal that you have absolutely no certain of the genetics. From a buyer's perspective, it's not worth it to try to prove out the 3 possible hets this animal has... unless it's a good deal (maybe no more than $50 more than a regular normal, assuming we're talking about normal hets here)

    Just my 2 cents

  3. #3
    Registered User ralphdp21's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmca View Post
    I think at this point, the odds are too low to justify any kind of price increase. You'd essentially be selling an animal that you have absolutely no certain of the genetics. From a buyer's perspective, it's not worth it to try to prove out the 3 possible hets this animal has... unless it's a good deal (maybe no more than $50 more than a regular normal, assuming we're talking about normal hets here)

    Just my 2 cents
    Okay I see. So the normals would be worthless essentially selling them as normals, I got that.

    I used the above example, but let's say I am using a male that is currently worth $5000, rather than the lesser but with the same conditions. Does that still make a difference? I just want to get this clear in my mind.

  4. #4
    Registered User ralphdp21's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    A 25% increase minus the loss in value of the morph?

    Sorry for the double post.

  5. #5
    Registered User aureptiles's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphdp21 View Post
    Okay I see. So the normals would be worthless essentially selling them as normals, I got that.

    I used the above example, but let's say I am using a male that is currently worth $5000, rather than the lesser but with the same conditions. Does that still make a difference? I just want to get this clear in my mind.
    Maybe. "It's only worth as much as what the buyer is willing to pay."

    What I was trying to get at is that from a buyer's perspective, one would be spending 3 years raising the triple het animal up, trying to prove it's het for A, failed. try again next year Het for B, failed. try again het for C, failed. It's simply too time consuming of a project to justify the extra dollar paid in the beginning.

    IMHO, the $5000 animal wouldn't be any different from our "normal" example before. The odds are still too low to justify any increase in price, so in other words, the odds justifies the price increase for possible hets.

    Remember, we're talking POSSIBLE hets. if these are 100%, it'd be an entirely different story!

  6. #6
    Registered User ralphdp21's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmca View Post
    Maybe. "It's only worth as much as what the buyer is willing to pay."

    What I was trying to get at is that from a buyer's perspective, one would be spending 3 years raising the triple het animal up, trying to prove it's het for A, failed. try again next year Het for B, failed. try again het for C, failed. It's simply too time consuming of a project to justify the extra dollar paid in the beginning.

    IMHO, the $5000 animal wouldn't be any different from our "normal" example before. The odds are still too low to justify any increase in price, so in other words, the odds justifies the price increase for possible hets.

    Remember, we're talking POSSIBLE hets. if these are 100%, it'd be an entirely different story!
    okay cool. im pretty sure I understand now.
    thank you.

    One more question.
    What would that $5000 snake be next year, if it wasnt bred like crazy, 25% less?
    Last edited by ralphdp21; 04-23-2010 at 02:41 AM.

  7. #7
    BPnet Veteran LGL's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphdp21 View Post
    Spider 50% het. albino Male x Pastel 100% het. axanthic 50% het. ghost Female

    what would the odds of the offspring be?

    ...

    which should translate:
    25% of Normals all 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Pastels all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Spiders all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    25% of Spider Pastels all possible 12% het. Axanthic, 6% het. Ghost, 12% het. Albino
    I’m a little confused as to where you’re getting the 12% and 6% chance Hets for the actual label of the snakes. These are independent genes, so they won’t affect the chance of inheriting other genes. There’s a 6.25% chance that a hatchling will inherit all three recessive genes (if the Spider is 100% Het Albino and the Pastel is 100% Het Axanthic and 100% Het Ghost).

    Anyway, here is what you can calculate:

    Spider 50% Het Albino x Pastel 100% Het Axanthic and 50% Ghost:

    1/4 Normal, 50% Het Axanthic, 25% Het Albino, and 25% Het Ghost
    1/4 Spider, 50% Het Axanthic, 25% Het Albino, and 25% Het Ghost
    1/4 Pastel, 50% Het Axanthic, 25% Het Albino, and 25% Het Ghost
    1/4 Bumblebee, 50% Het Axanthic, 25% Het Albino, and 25% Het Ghost

    Since you don’t know if the parents actually even have the Albino and/or Ghost gene, any genotypic breakdown of the percentage of hatchlings that’ll inherit the different recessive genes is purely speculation.

    If you prove out the genotypes of the parents or you happen to know, here is what you’d label the hatchlings as:

    Spider 100% Het Albino x Pastel Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Axanthic and 100% Het Ghost):

    1/32 Normal
    1/32 Normal, 100% Het Albino
    1/32 Normal, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Normal, 100% Het Ghost
    1/32 Normal, Double Het Snow (100% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Normal, Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Normal, Double Het Sunglow (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Albino)
    1/32 Normal, 100% Het Albino, 100% Het Ghost, and 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Spider
    1/32 Spider, 100% Het Albino
    1/32 Spider, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Spider, 100% Het Ghost
    1/32 Spider, Double Het Snow (100% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Spider, Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Spider, Double Het Sunglow (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Albino)
    1/32 Spider, 100% Het Albino, 100% Het Ghost, and 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Pastel
    1/32 Pastel, 100% Het Albino
    1/32 Pastel, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Pastel, 100% Het Ghost
    1/32 Pastel, Double Het Snow (100% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Pastel, Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Pastel, Double Het Sunglow (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Albino)
    1/32 Pastel, 100% Het Albino, 100% Het Ghost, and 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Bumblebee
    1/32 Bumblebee, 100% Het Albino
    1/32 Bumblebee, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/32 Bumblebee, 100% Het Ghost
    1/32 Bumblebee, Double Het Snow (100% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Bumblebee, Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/32 Bumblebee, Double Het Sunglow (100% Het Ghost and 100% Het Albino)
    1/32 Bumblebee, 100% Het Albino, 100% Het Ghost, and 100% Het Axanthic

    Labeled as:
    1/4 Normal, 50% Het Albino, 50% Het Axanthic, and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Spider, 50% Het Albino, 50% Het Axanthic, and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Pastel, 50% Het Albino, 50% Het Axanthic, and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Bumblebee, 50% Het Albino, 50% Het Axanthic, and 50% Het Ghost


    Spider 100% Het Albino x Pastel 100% Het Axanthic:

    1/16 Normal
    1/16 Normal, 100% Het Albino
    1/16 Normal, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Normal, Double Het Snow (100%% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Spider
    1/16 Spider, 100% Het Albino
    1/16 Spider, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Spider, Double Het Snow (100%% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Pastel
    1/16 Pastel, 100% Het Albino
    1/16 Pastel, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Pastel, Double Het Snow (100%% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Bumblebee
    1/16 Bumblebee, 100% Het Albino
    1/16 Bumblebee, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Bumblebee, Double Het Snow (100%% Het Albino and 100% Het Axanthic)

    Labeled as:
    1/4 Normal, 50% Het Albino and 50% Het Axanthic
    1/4 Spider, 50% Het Albino and 50% Het Axanthic
    1/4 Pastel, 50% Het Albino and 50% Het Axanthic
    1/4 Bumblebee, 50% Het Albino and 50% Het Axanthic


    Spider x Pastel Double Het True Ghost (100% Het Axanthic and 100% Het Ghost):

    1/16 Normal
    1/16 Normal, 100% Het Ghost
    1/16 Normal, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Normal, Double Het True Ghost (100%% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Spider
    1/16 Spider, 100% Het Ghost
    1/16 Spider, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Spider, Double Het True Ghost (100%% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Pastel
    1/16 Pastel, 100% Het Ghost
    1/16 Pastel, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Pastel, Double Het True Ghost (100%% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)
    1/16 Bumblebee
    1/16 Bumblebee, 100% Het Ghost
    1/16 Bumblebee, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/16 Bumblebee, Double Het True Ghost (100%% Het Ghost and 100% Het Axanthic)

    Labeled as:
    1/4 Normal, 50% Het Axanthic and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Spider, 50% Het Axanthic and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Pastel, 50% Het Axanthic and 50% Het Ghost
    1/4 Bumblebee, 50% Het Axanthic and 50% Het Ghost


    Spider x Pastel 100% Het Axanthic:

    1/8 Normal
    1/8 Normal, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Spider
    1/8 Spider, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Pastel
    1/8 Pastel, 100% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Bumblebee
    1/8 Bumblebee, 100% Het Axanthic

    Labeled as:
    1/8 Normal, 50% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Spider, 50% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Pastel, 50% Het Axanthic
    1/8 Bumblebee, 50% Het Axanthic
    Eric Wilson
    UltimateHerps
    www.ultimateherps.com

  8. #8
    BPnet Veteran mykee's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Wow, my brain hurts.
    As a breeder AND a customer of ball pythons, if it's not 100% het, I consider it a normal and I personally (as well as a large number of breeder friends of mine) would not pay one red cent more.

  9. #9
    BPnet Senior Member waltah!'s Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    You won't find many who will pay extra for poss hets unless it's for a new recessive morph and they are trying to get in on the ground floor.
    You could sell a possible het candy at a premium. A possible het hypo, not so much.
    --Walt

  10. #10
    BPnet Lifer angllady2's Avatar
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    Re: calculating price based on het. %?

    Me personally, if a hatchling is NOT 100% het for anything, I will not be marking it up by more than maybe 5%.

    I've been to enough shows and seen enough 66% het this and 50% het that and possible het the other; along with the price tags to understand, most breeders only put a marginal price increase for anything other than a 100% het.

    For example, I saw three pinstripes on a breeders table. One was 100% het for ghost and was priced accordingly. One was just a plain pinstripe, one was 66% het for ghost. The 66% was only a few dollars more than the plain pinstripe, because the breeder understands that 66% het means the snake might be het, or it might not.

    Perhaps with a male 66% het, it would be worth a little extra, because in a year or less you can find out, but a female would require at least 2 years, maybe 3 or more before you can begin to try and prove her.

    Gale
    1.0 Low-white Pied - Yakul | 1.0 Granite het Pied - Nago
    1.0 Mojave - Okoto | 1.0 Vanilla - Kodama
    1.0 Pastel - Koroku | 1.0 Fire - Osa
    0.1 het Pied - Toki | 0.1 het Pied - Mauro
    0.1 Mojave - Kina | 0.1 Blushback Cinnamon - Kuri
    0.1 Fire - Mori | 0.1 Reduced Pinstripe - Sumi
    0.1 Pastel - Yuki | 0.1 Dinker Normal - Akashi
    0.1 Ghana Giant Normal - Tatari | 0.1 Dinker Normal - Kaiya

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