Toxic Plastic--What A Gas!

[dr del]

Hi,

Off topic portions of this thread have been moved to the quarantine room and can now be found here.

Anyone needing access to the quarantine room should contact any member of the admin team - names in red in the userlist.


dr del

[Shock]

I wonder how many documented cases there has been of snakes dieing of plastic toxins.

[Arsinoe]

Hi,

Off topic portions of this thread have been moved to the quarantine room and can now be found here.

Anyone needing access to the quarantine room should contact any member of the admin team - names in red in the userlist.


dr del

I'd ask to see the quarantine room but I'm not particularly interested in seeing a bunch of argumentive remarks from people who don't want to admit that plastics have their problems......And the govt doesn't want to do anything about it.

The shop I bought Alexander used Tanks. It's a reptile dedicated privately operated store. Not a Petco etc. I might add I think they use a swamp cooler instead of refrigerated air, cause it's always rather muggy inside even with the fron't door open and additional fans going. That must be how they keep the humidity up for the snakes. Since swamp coolers don't really work here any more, southern NM, it seems to do the trick for the store.

Is there a viable way to ventilate tubs so fumes don't accumulate? Probably not.

PS: How'd you know about Alexander being able to talk? He can tap dance too!

[771subliminal]

I'd ask to see the quarantine room but I'm not particularly interested in seeing a bunch of argumentive remarks from people who don't want to admit that plastics have their problems......And the govt doesn't want to do anything about it.

The shop I bought Alexander used Tanks. It's a reptile dedicated privately operated store. Not a Petco etc. I might add I think they use a swamp cooler instead of refrigerated air, cause it's always rather muggy inside even with the fron't door open and additional fans going. That must be how they keep the humidity up for the snakes. Since swamp coolers don't really work here any more, southern NM, it seems to do the trick for the store.

Is there a viable way to ventilate tubs so fumes don't accumulate? Probably not.

PS: How'd you know about Alexander being able to talk? He can tap dance too!

1st the post that were removed were not about people even talking about plastic being good or bad they were actually talking about voltron, john and kate plus 8 the yankees and micheal jackson so your not missing anything.

2nd pet stores (even ones that are didicated) are looking to make money and in order to get the most income as they can they put animals where they can be seen the best and tanks do that well just like grocery stores putting the sugar cereals at kids eye level people want what they see..... out of site out of mind people like to buy on impulse.
they also like to put more animals in smaller tanks than they should be in more tanks with more animals in a smaller area means more money that they can make. this is one of the reasons you hear alot about not buying animals from pet stores they are not kept correctly. pet stores are also most times are bad places to get advice on keeping your pet. if they can sell you $100 worth of stuff that you dont need even if its wrong they will.

Is there a viable way to ventilate tubs so fumes don't accumulate? Probably not.

do you know the exact rate to which these fumes accumlate in an area and how much air movment is needed to keep the air at a level that is healthy? if you do then we can figure out if we are ventilating enough. ive seen no post on any website about snakes or any animals passing away from platic fumes so im gonna go out on a limb here and say that 1 there probably is a way to vent and 2 that pretty much everyone useing tubs is venting enough.

also know that with snakes they dont breath the same as us so even in a area that we couldnt breath snakes would be just fine thats why you dont see people using a gas chamber to put snakes to sleep like you see with rats.

[Arsinoe]

1st the post that were removed were not about people even talking about plastic being good or bad they were actually talking about voltron, john and kate plus 8 the yankees and micheal jackson so your not missing anything.

2nd pet stores (even ones that are didicated) are looking to make money and in order to get the most income as they can they put animals where they can be seen the best and tanks do that well just like grocery stores putting the sugar cereals at kids eye level people want what they see..... out of site out of mind people like to buy on impulse.
they also like to put more animals in smaller tanks than they should be in more tanks with more animals in a smaller area means more money that they can make. this is one of the reasons you hear alot about not buying animals from pet stores they are not kept correctly. pet stores are also most times are bad places to get advice on keeping your pet. if they can sell you $100 worth of stuff that you dont need even if its wrong they will.




do you know the exact rate to which these fumes accumlate in an area and how much air movment is needed to keep the air at a level that is healthy? if you do then we can figure out if we are ventilating enough. ive seen no post on any website about snakes or any animals passing away from platic fumes so im gonna go out on a limb here and say that 1 there probably is a way to vent and 2 that pretty much everyone useing tubs is venting enough.

also know that with snakes they dont breath the same as us so even in a area that we couldnt breath snakes would be just fine thats why you dont see people using a gas chamber to put snakes to sleep like you see with rats.

1st----WHY???

2nd---I have no idea about the accumulation rate. But wouldn't it be counter productive to ventilate, humidity and even temp wise? Especially if you use a fan.

It seems site wise that they probably don't mention animals and the effects on them since I'm sure they believe that if it's bad for humans, it's bad for everyone else too.........And if they do mentionit, that sort of insinuate that they may have tested it on said animal and not politically correct you know.

Actually this local store breeds their own. So it's not quite a classic pet store. I noticed that they restrict the supplies they sell to what's needed, Not a bunch of extra fluff stuff.

&

You can't gas a snake???

[A.VinczeBPs]

1st----WHY???

2nd---I have no idea about the accumulation rate. But wouldn't it be counter productive to ventilate, humidity and even temp wise? Especially if you use a fan.

It seems site wise that they probably don't mention animals and the effects on them since I'm sure they believe that if it's bad for humans, it's bad for everyone else too.........And if they do mentionit, that sort of insinuate that they may have tested it on said animal and not politically correct you know.

Actually this local store breeds their own. So it's not quite a classic pet store. I noticed that they restrict the supplies they sell to what's needed, Not a bunch of extra fluff stuff.

&

You can't gas a snake???

1: Because it was better than your discussion.

2: Even if it is a specialty reptile store, they still hold them in tanks for one reason: so people can see, and buy them. They don't breed in those tanks, go ask them.
They probably house more than one of the same animals in the tanks as well, which everyone should know is not how they should be kept. It's ok for the store, they have to make money and they normally care for the animals, but it's not how you'd care for them at your house.

3: You ignore all the points contradicting your opinion, even though most just say get a credible source before basing your opinion. If you do that, then maybe we'll give your opinion a second chance.

4: You're not making any friends this way...

[771subliminal]

1st----WHY???

got off topic things happen

2nd---I have no idea about the accumulation rate. But wouldn't it be counter productive to ventilate, humidity and even temp wise? Especially if you use a fan.

holes are put in tubs to vent and if it was in the snakes best interest we would adjust accordingly to keep the humidity and temps correct as i assume you would if you had to put a fan in your tank to keep everything right.

It seems site wise that they probably don't mention animals and the effects on them since I'm sure they believe that if it's bad for humans, it's bad for everyone else too.........And if they do mentionit, that sort of insinuate that they may have tested it on said animal and not politically correct you know.

you would have to assume that with so many animals (pets) being kept in plastic tubs around the world and no reports of them dying that the fumes that are comming from them would have to be to low enough not to effect them right?

i mean just on this site alone you can find a few thousand snakes that are kept in tubs for years and years with no ill effects so that has to be pretty good data (and people keep very good records of their snakes ie feeding, shedding, etc) to come up with some sort of conclusion. its gotta be pretty close to if not more than the data they get b4 the fda approves a new drug

You can't gas a snake???

its not that you "cant" it just takes alot longer reptiles can shut down their bodies to survive

[WingedWolfPsion]

Testing on rats is still being conducted--of course these chemicals have not yet been tested on reptiles to see what effects they're having.

However, if we extrapolate from rat studies, we would expect to see feminized males and increased birth defects. We do see those in ball python clutches--but we began breeding these animals in captivity after these plastics began to be used, so we have no 'clean' examples to study. Are these cases due to the plastics we use? If the rat studies can be extrapolated, then it would seem logical that at least some of them are.

Endocrine disruption isn't a fantasy. These chemicals have very real effects on fetal development. These effects aren't questionable at all--the argument has been made that just because they effect rats doesn't mean they'll effect other animals. While a valid complaint in a minor way, we can already see evidence of endocrine disruption occurring in other species, including ours, so it would seem more logical to error on the side of caution while we wait for that confirmation.

Since you didn't like the OP's supporting links, I provided more legitimate ones. They say the same thing.

Here's more scientific information on BPA:
http://www.endocrinedisruption.com/e...ol.summary.php

It's important to understand that these chemicals feminize males and can even masculinize females. So, are they responsible for 'lazy males'? I'm sure other things could cause that as well...but these chemicals most certainly can. I guess I'm missing how this is a 'reach'.

Human fertility is also being affected noticeably. While humans have always been a pretty fecund species, one must admit that a decline in humans' actual ABILITY to reproduce isn't something to be dismissed lightly.
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...ract/17/6/1437

It's also making our kids obese--I know, it's a shock that it's not the candy, but kids used to eat candy before we had plastics, too.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...s-in-plastics/

If it affects rats and humans, why not ball pythons? Alligators have responded to different endocrine disruptors--most famously, in Lake Apopka. Judging by alligator reactions, reptiles can be expected to show the same signs that mammals do when exposed to low levels of endocrine disrupting chemicals of other types.

I'm not saying we should stop using these PVC racks--perhaps the convenience, the ease of keeping things sanitary, and the light weight all contribute to making it worth the problems they may cause--and as I said, it's not as though we can provide them with an environment that's free of endocrine disrupting chemicals anyhow. We can't...not anymore. So we might as well make the best of it.

[771subliminal]

Testing on rats is still being conducted--of course these chemicals have not yet been tested on reptiles to see what effects they're having.

However, if we extrapolate from rat studies, we would expect to see feminized males and increased birth defects. We do see those in ball python clutches--but we began breeding these animals in captivity after these plastics began to be used, so we have no 'clean' examples to study. Are these cases due to the plastics we use? If the rat studies can be extrapolated, then it would seem logical that at least some of them are..............................................................

that argument works for pvc but if you look at the ops past post in other threads as well they are against tubs all together and the pvc toxic post is just another bash at them. now for the tubs that are used they are not made of pvc and it would appear that the op would still have a problem with using tubs even when pvc isnt used at all.

I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.

[BuckeyeBalls]

BTW: I'm not talking down to the Tupperwere (See I can spell!)

See that is amusing. You know what i would like? A summary of what that report says. Because i bet you that you do not even understand what they are talking about. You just seen something that said toxic plastic and said OH LOOK I CAN USE THIS FOR MY NAZI TUB REGIME

Edit: You know what would be a good poll to start? How many people's snakes have died due to plastic tubs! LOL