Nose Rubbing?

[philippe]

Hey guys,

I have a pair that has been breeding since about november and have seen about 4 clear locks. However it's always been the male that was in the mood, and the female would just ignore him. Yesterday i paired them again right after my male has shed and the female is in blue. I noticed that she was rubbing her nose all over the newspaper. She is early in the shed cycle so it wasnt to help peel off her skin to shed. What do you guys think this was. Do females have scent glands near their snout to spread pheromones?

If she is finally getting in the mood, do you guys think this might be her pre ovulation shed? If so what is the approximate timeline for things to come in regards of ovulation, pre lay shed, and eggs.

Thank-you
Philippe

[philippe]

bump...

[A.VinczeBPs]

I've seen them do it a couple days before shedding, it's just to help loosen the skin in the area.

to weather it's a pre or post ovulation shed I couldn't tell without pictures and more info. Has she been building? Did you see ovulation? Do you feel follicles? Any building behavior? So on, so forth.

[philippe]

I dont think it's to loosen up the skin because she's just going blue and she usually sheds about 5-6 days after blue. It's also the first time i notice her doing that and she started doing it right after i put the male in.

Do you know if there are scent glands near the chin at all? It seemed pretty methodical not just rubbing in one place, but trying to rub her snout over the whole tub.

I have not seen any building behaviour and am having a lot of difficulty palpating. I've palpated garter snakes successfully before, but this is just so much harder and I'm not sure what i am feeling. I don't think i've felt any follicles though, and she's not that big since she always goes off feed during the winter.

This is the first time i see her show any signs of interest in a male though, so I figure if shes trying to attract a mate that would be because she is ready to breed and producing follicles.

Does pre-ovulation shed usually occur after a lot of building, or does it usually mark the start of building. If this is her pre-ovulation shed though about how long until actual ovulation.

I know alot of questions, but any insight is greatly appreciated

Thank-you
Philippe

[A.VinczeBPs]

Building come before, then ovulation, then massive building. If you've not noticed anything like that though, then I doubt she's near post or pre ovulation shed.

She could be trying to escape, maybe she doesn't want to be kept with the male. I've never heard of nose rubbing as any sort of sign except for health issues or shed. Tail wagging means she wants a male.

Are your temps and humidity correct?

Here is a good site on breeding: http://ballpythons.ca/gallery/breeding.html

[philippe]

Trust me i've read all those websites 100 times over and have done all my research. It's not that long but i've kept ball pythons for 3 years now so i'm not at the stage of correcting husbandry anymore.

I can guarantee she wasn't doing that to escape and I'm pretty sure i've read somewhere that females will rub their chin around to spread pheromones, but i'm not 100% sure, that's why i came here to get extra feedback.

I understand theres building then ovulation then more building until she lays. But what i'm asking is, is there alot of building before the pre-ovulation shed, or do they start slowly building, go through the pre-ov shed, and then once they've shed start to really build until ovulation.

[A.VinczeBPs]

Building starts very slowly, and will continue to go slowly until ovulation when it speeds up much more. But before ovulation the build should still be very noticeable.

With out any visuals to go off of though, it's hard to help you.

I did not mean to offend, just asking common questions. Second, again I've never heard anything about the chin having anything to do with breeding...unless she's trying to get close to the male by following his scent.

Keep putting them together until she stops taking the male, if you still see locks, chances are she has not ovulated yet. (though their are exceptions to the rules)

[philippe]

No offense taken i appreciate you trying to help.

So basically what you're saying is that even before the pre-ovulation shed, I should be able to clearly see signs of building.

So if I havent really seen signs of building then chances are this isnt her pre-ovulation shed right?

[A.VinczeBPs]

Probably not. But keep them together, eventually you'll notice something.

Sometimes, not often, but sometimes you can completely miss all signs. Maybe that happened, so don't give up. Look for signs, keep the male on a rotation, and wait until she won't take the male or she pops out eggs.

Last year we had a female with very little build, we thought she was not going to go, but she was giving other signs like laying inverted, coiling on the heat, and still we saw no build.

She gave us 5 healthy eggs. So just keep hoping!

[philippe]

Alright im just a little depressed seeing as it's so late in the season and i check her every day and shes showing no signs whatsoever. I tried her out last year with no luck and i was really hoping shed go for me this year. I guess seeing her rub her nose got me excited, but it may have been a little premature. I just dont want to have to wait till next year again to have my first clutch