random aggression

[Big Wayne]

My male BP named Noose is roughly 8 months old. I've had him for about a month and a half. We keep him in a 20 gal long aquarium and use a small UTH, 100 watt basking lamp and a 60 watt ceramic heater. The temp on the hot side stays 90-95 and the cool side is in the high 70's. I have to mist frequently and leave wet sponges in the tank to keep the humidity between 50-70%. He has 2 different hide spots to use (which he never gets in). He usually just hides in some of the fake plants in his tank instead of using his half log or hollowed out tree made for reptiles

Since we have had him he has been very lethargic which I have been told is normal. He comes out when I put his night light on, but not very much. He has been eating regularly and has shed successfully since we have had him. In light of all of that we have started to handle him some lately. He has never showed any sign of aggression.

Now that I have explained his habitat, let me tell you the problem...

Last time we fed him he acted different than I've ever seen him. I always feed him at night because that's when he's awake. He eats frozen thawed. I feed him in his tank. I know I need a separate feeding tank but I haven't gotten around to it. I thawed the mouse and brought it in the room and it was like he knew I had the mouse right when I walked into the room. He was all coiled in strike position following my every movement. I waived my hand in front of the tank and he struck at it. I dropped the mouse in pretty quickly because he was trying to jump out of the cage as I opened it. After I dropped it in he moved all around the tank, almost as if he was making sure it was safe. After about 30 minutes of odd behavior he snagged the mouse and ate it. I understand that aggressive behavior during feeding isn't very unusual and this isn't what has me concerned.

The following day (today) he slept most of the day. Later in the evening I noticed he had his head poked out of his hiding bushes (which is unusual being that he always hides all day). I walked over to look at him and noticed he was in the same aggressive coil position as the night before, head following my every movement. He never struck at me through the glass like he did the night before, but it doesn't take an expert to know if I would have stuck my hand in there he would have bit me. Every time I even started to approach the tank he would coil tighter poising for a strike, he was pissed off! He is still like that right now at 3:00 AM

This worried me because he displayed this aggressive behavior when there was no food around and he had just ate so I know he isn't hungry. Nothing in his environment has changed. I just don't know what could cause such a dramatic change in his behavior. I just want to know if there is any common explanation for this behavior or if anyone with more experience can shed any light. I will be glad to answer any further questions about his environment, the aggression or my care for him.

Thanks,
Richard Wayne

[Jeremy78]

Lmao never seen a post like this before. I bet for every 30 posts on a bp being a picky eater there is one on one being an overly aggresive feeder. Maybe next time you feed try a slighty larger prey animal. Go for a f/t small rat. Then he will probably go back to his lathargic working up a poop ways.
I would be ecstatic if I were you lol. And feeding outside of the cage is not a must... It's only really for handlers who Dont want a feeding response when they open up there cage to take them out. IMO I love a feeding response when I open up my bps enclosures. A lot quicker to feed :-).
Be happy! You have an established eater :-).

[Big Wayne]

Oh, and I forgot to mention. He hasn't pooped since we've had him. That's about a month/ 4 feedings. Is he constipated? Could this be part of the problem?

[iCandiBallPythons]

Lmao never seen a post like this before. I bet for every 30 posts on a bp being a picky eater there is one on one being an overly aggresive feeder. Maybe next time you feed try a slighty larger prey animal. Go for a f/t small rat. Then he will probably go back to his lathargic working up a poop ways.
I would be ecstatic if I were you lol. And feeding outside of the cage is not a must... It's only really for handlers who Dont want a feeding response when they open up there cage to take them out. IMO I love a feeding response when I open up my bps enclosures. A lot quicker to feed :-).
Be happy! You have an established eater :-).

That doesn't make alot of sense really, all of mine are fed inside their own bins, and I've never known a single one to have enclosure aggression as far as bp's.

[Adam Chandler]

How big was the prey? At 8 months old if you are going to keep him on mice he may be ready to start eating 2 mice. Based on what you said he may have just still been hungry.

Just to make sure, he isn't showing any signs of shedding is he?


For the fact that he hasn't pooped in the last month its not really a big deal, and if you are really concerned about it you can soak him in warm-ish water, that will usually get him to go. However I have some BPs that go without pooping for a month, its not too unusual. Mine usually go right after shedding.

[Kaorte]

Don't think of ball pythons as aggressive, they really aren't. They are either hungry or scared.

Well, its sounds to me like you have some husbandry to fix first of all. I would start by getting him some new snug fitting hides. I use plastic bowls from the dollar store with a small entrance cut out of the side.

Next, temperatures and humidity. Unless you have this snake outside in Alaska, you shouldn't need three strong heating elements. Your temps lead me to believe that you are not correctly measuring and monitoring your temps. Are you using those round stick on gauges? You should try using digital thermometers with probes and a digital hygrometer. You will get much more accurate readings. The accurite weather station from the home depot, lowes, or walmart (about $12) will measure everything you need to in his enclosure. Hot spot temp, ambient temp, and ambient humidity. Make sure you get the one with the wired probe.

As for your heat sources, you should really only need the UTH unless your house gets below 75*, then you may need a low wattage CHE or red light. Remember that any over head heat will remove humidity from the air. If you just use a UTH, humidity shouldn't ever be an issue.

There is absolutely no reason to feed outside the enclosure. It will not prevent "aggression". It will only make the snake less likely to eat in a strange new environment. Feeding in the enclosure is acceptable. I feed all 6 of my snakes in their enclosures and I have never had a problem with this "aggression".

The next thing to address is how much you are feeding him. I have a feeling that you aren't feeding him quite enough. An 8 month old snake should be eating either two full grown mice or an equally sized rat. None of this hoppers, fuzzies and pinky business. Those are like popcorn for a heavy bodied snake like a ball python.

Also, you should refrain from interacting with your snake on feeding day, and two days after to allow for digestion. It is not unheard of for a snake to still be in "feeding mode" the day after feeding, even if they were given an appropriately sized meal.

Don't worry about the no-poop business. Ball pythons can go a long time with no poops. As long as the area around his vent doesn't feel hard, he will be fine. I have had snakes hold their poo for as long as 6 weeks. Just get ready for when that poo does grace you with its aromatic presence.

I hope this helps shed some light on the situation. Don't be concerned about his behavior, it is most likely something that you can change with a few husbandry adjustments.

[Big Wayne]

How big was the prey? At 8 months old if you are going to keep him on mice he may be ready to start eating 2 mice. Based on what you said he may have just still been hungry.

Just to make sure, he isn't showing any signs of shedding is he?

no, he just got done shedding. He got everything off in one piece and did a great job.

Him still being hungry would kinda make sense. Im not 100% sure he's quite 8 months. How big should he be?

Without measureing and just eyeballing it, I'd say noose is almost 2 ft long, and a little over an inch in diameter in his thickest spot. I have no clue on his weight. What's a good way to know if he needs larger prey?

[Kaorte]

no, he just got done shedding. He got everything off in one piece and did a great job.

Him still being hungry would kinda make sense. Im not 100% sure he's quite 8 months. How big should he be?

Without measureing and using my eyeball, I'd say noose is almost 2 ft long and a little over an inch in diameter in his thickest spot. I have no clue on his weight. What's a good way to know if he needs larger prey?

...Do you have a picture of this snake. An inch round, 2 feet, and 8 months old sounds like a seriously underweight snake.

[proballo]

hmmm all these posts with people saying all you need id an UTH... We have a large UTH, large basking light (hot side) and red light (cool side set to turn on if temp falls below 80) This keeps the temps where they need to be, although the lamps do dry the air our house has a daytime temp of 73 and at night I let it drop to 66 but really I can't see going with just an UTH...

[Kaorte]

hmmm all these posts with people saying all you need id an UTH... We have a large UTH, large basking light (hot side) and red light (cool side set to turn on if temp falls below 80) This keeps the temps where they need to be, although the lamps do dry the air our house has a daytime temp of 73 and at night I let it drop to 66 but really I can't see going with just an UTH...

What kind of thermometers are you using?