black pastel x black pastel ???

[chasedandbeaten]

now i know the odds of what you would get but from what ive heard from someone by doing this you would get deformities in the babies and i was wondering if this is true????

[Big Gunns]

now i know the odds of what you would get but from what ive heard from someone by doing this you would get deformities in the babies and i was wondering if this is true????

Yes...there's a good chance you will.

[kc261]

Some super black pastels and super cinnamons have a deformed face that is called a duck bill. Some lines are more prone to it than others. If I recall, Ian G's line of black pastel is supposed to be free of duck bill problems.

[Mike Schultz]

Yes it depends on the line... when black pastels were first introduced there was a lot of inbreeding to create the super blacks. make sure you buy a good, established outcrossed line of black pastel to avoid problems.

[ColinWeaver]

[kc261]

OK, that is more than just duck billing. Colin, care to give us any more info?

[ColinWeaver]

A lot of super blacks have spinal deformities and don't survive incubation (such as those in the picture). I am not aware that anyone has broken the code on how to avoid this other than to cross black pastels with cinnamon pastels. I don't like how brown they look when the cinnamon gene is added so I don't do that. Is it moisture, incubation temperature, something else? I don't know yet. Maybe somebody else does.

I produced a super pastel super black pastel (super super) last year that had the same problem.

Clean super blacks are getting hatched each season but it's a bit of a crap shoot.

[kc261]

Colin, thanks for that info. I know you work with Ian G a lot. Were these animals from his line of black pastels? If so, it is disappointing that I'd heard that line was supposed to be free of problems (or maybe it was just had less problems?) and yet it can still produce babies like these.

It won't stop me from getting & breeding a black pastel, but it might slow me down on how soon I try for a super. Maybe by then a truly problem free line will have been established, or else someone will have found some trick to produce them safely.

[ColinWeaver]

All of my black pastels come directly from Ian.

Ian does have several breeder black pastels that do not seem to have the duckbilling and deformity issue. I can't say much more than that as they are not mine and I don't want to misinform.

It is not safe to say that all "Ian G" line black pastels are free from the problem.

[snakesRkewl]

I'm been breeding a pair of Ian's Black pastels this season, female is well on her way.
Thanks for the info Colin, kinda makes me a bit nervous but we're hoping things turn out well
We are really hoping for a healthy super.