Breeding normals?

[kfuentes]

Theo is a fine upstanding chap...

[dreese88]

As far as my breeding projects go, I will never breed a normal. As my collection grows, single gene codoms won't be bred either unless it's to a homozygous codom or visual recessive. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but this is where you're talking about a GHI, Banana or HG Woma types of snakes. This is because I want the best examples of some of the more expensive morphs available and it would be hard to afford those if I'm just producing normals, pastels, & cinny's.

On the flip side, I agree with Ed's first post. I do think we should try to get more US CBB animals into the market to lessen the amount of imports we as keepers use and also to help new keepers be able to have the ability to raise CBB normals if that is what they want. However, ball python wrangling is a market in Africa that many people depend on for their livelihood and they will continue catch ball pythons whether it's for food or skin or pet trade.

So, basically what I'm saying is. I could care less if other people want to breed normals, if that's what makes them happy, then all the better. I just won't be one of those people that chooses to do that.

[WesleyTF]

actually, there are an amazing amount of dogs/cats on CL, I'd say more than any other animal.

[MarkS]

Im not saying we shouldnt get them, just saying, why breed a animal that is currently everywhere else?
It seems like a bit of overkill ya know?

Yes, you proved that there has been a pied in need of rescuing, but out of how many normals...

so out of thousands of normals, there is a pied...

They are out there... but FAR from common.

Well, I've been helping out with reptile rescue for over 10 years and I can tell you that I've seen plenty of expensive animals of many different species and morphs that come in in rough shape. Yes, you do see more normal ball pythons, or normal boas or normal corn snakes, but that's because they're ARE more of them. I used to see a lot more Green Iguanas or Normal Burms coming in, but those species have declined, not because they're suddenly easier to take care of, but because they're just not as popular as they used to be so they are fewer in number.

I think that there is a HUGE trap that ANYONE who does animal rescue of any kind has a danger of falling into. In any kind of a rescue situation you do tend to see animals that are in very rough shape and are on deaths doorstep. seeing this kind of thing can break your heart and make you feel very uncharitable against your fellow man. Unfortunatly I think that this is where an awful lot of animal rights activists come from. However, people who see this dark side of pet keeping are not seeing the whole picture. For any animal that comes in with problems from mistreatment, there are hundreds of others out there that are in great shape and are well loved and well taken care of.

[FIEND_FO_LYFE]

Theo is a lamo...

Wow... Thats quite immature.


This thread was not started because i wanted to be bashed.
I merely asked a question i knew many had strong feelings about, and that is why i wanted to hear.

comments such as this, just makes me think that you don't need to be on this forum.

Thank you all who posted a valid opinion, and did not bash mine.
we all have the right to express our valid opinion, but childish name calling, and "I'm right, your wrong" type statements are unneeded.

[SlitherinSisters]

It doesn't bother me. If you think about it, even if you breed a pastel to a normal, you may only get 1 pastel and 6 normals. This isn't helping to reduce normals at all. Normal males are pretty much worthless to breeders, but for people who want a pet ball python-there will always be plenty of those people-they don't care if it's a normal male or female.

What bothers me is that shelters won't let breeders adopt ball pythons. I've been blacklisted from the shelter in my area because I let it slip that I was a breeder.

[MarkS]

Theo is a lamo...

I never thought of Theo as a Lame-o, at least he knows how to spell (most of the time)

[FIEND_FO_LYFE]

It doesn't bother me. If you think about it, even if you breed a pastel to a normal, you may only get 1 pastel and 6 normals. This isn't helping to reduce normals at all. Normal males are pretty much worthless to breeders, but for people who want a pet ball python-there will always be plenty of those people-they don't care if it's a normal male or female.

What bothers me is that shelters won't let breeders adopt ball pythons. I've been blacklisted from the shelter in my area because I let it slip that I was a breeder.

I agree, i should have made myself more clear.
I am breeding norms,with pastels, lessers etc... and expect to get MANY normals. Its not that I'm going to treat them any different, its the same animal, with a different look. I have 3 normals, 4 if you include my Het. that's not including the rest of my family's normals.

I never thought of Theo as a Lame-o, at least he knows how to spell (most of the time)

Thanks man.

[Warocker's Wife]

Very interesting topic. I know I may get grief for this.

Since I help with our local rescue and here in Washington State we are actually turning down ball python because of the overwhelming amount of them always coming in and not enough foster homes to help with them. We always have from what I recall being told somewhere of about 20+ every time in the need of good homes.

I would have to say maybe yes to stop...
BUT...let me explain since we go to so many shows and each year I see it getting full of BP morphs and with each given year we see a larger amount of morph BP breeding so with each clutch we still get normal’s right? So we will not stop breeding normal CB.
Maybe we will have the right amount of BP or more closer to the number in demand and not to over populate, that rescues societies are overwhelmed with them.
I am here because I fell head over heels in love with a normal ball python and I would NEVER change that and I would NEVER want to take that gift away from anyone.
So I stand astray from this in one way I want normal to be breed and another side of me feels because there are so many in rescues that maybe breeding normal to normal is not necessary when we have so many clutches of morphs.

Again I am on both sides of the fence.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Actually, I wish MORE people would breed normals--breed them for desirable characteristics. I would love to see people breeding normal balls for temperament, consistent feeding, good growth rate, and size.

If you were a morph breeder, and you were offered 2 options-- a lot of 10 ball python females of average size and disposition, for $500, OR, a lot of 10 ball python females over 2500 grams ea with good temperaments, that are consistant feeders on FT rats, with good clean markings and colors for $1500, which lot would you choose for pairing with your morphs?

The issue with reptile rescues is a local issue--in some areas of the country, it may be as Warocker's says--many balls in need of new homes, and not enough to take them--but in many other areas, the opposite is true--balls don't last a day once they're made available, because many people want them. I have one ball python that I took in for free. She's the only one I have ever seen offered, and she's now part of my breeding collection.

Once I have my collection where I need it to be (I am a business, after all), I am going to breed some normals. These will be selective breeding programs to produce normals with the traits I want--docile and reliable temperament, fast growth, larger size, large clutch size, and good, clean patterning. These will be the normals I'll want to pair with morphs that I acquire. I want to improve morph lines by adding in quality normal lines.