Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument

[MustBeSatan]

Again, we know what we think we know. That is until a new discovery allows us to transend the known facts. I do not deny what you're quoting, but is this the true fact or just a percieved fact that will change when a new discovery has been made?

Jim Smith

So I'm just banging my head into the wall here aren't I.

I hate arguments like yours, because you can say it to anything. I.e.- we think pigs can't fly, because that is what we know right now. Maybe one day we will find out that pigs can fly by altering their own gravitational field using some part of their butt we don't know exists or don't know the function of.

But here's what I will ask you. What is your belief that snakes can feel based on? If you are willing to accept that right now, the scientific community has found convincing evidence that snakes can't feel, then what evidence do you have to support your own conclusion? Just your own observations?

[j_h_smith]

I'm not interested in what man thinks and "knows" to be the truth. What I'm saying is that just because mankind says something is so, doesn't mean it really is. That's what discovery is all about, learning a little more, so that we can understand just a little more. But does it mean we actual know everything. Of course not. We have to light the fire under all mankind to never accept what is told to you as a fact. We must all strive to uncover new details. We must always continue to learn NEW facts, to continue to build on known facts.

Look, I don't want to continue this discussion. Nothing against you, but until you learn to look outside the box, we'll all live on a flat world.

Jim Smith

[BPelizabeth]

I totally get what J_H is saying. Just because we as humans have emotions because of one part of our brain....doesnt mean that snakes need to have emotions from that part of the brain. ?? After all don't we only use something like 5% of our brain. (or something crazy like that). Are we not just learning what the whale songs mean....are we not just learning to communicate with dolphins over the last decade or two.

What J is saying is...there are things that could be....that we do not yet understand....we are constantly learning and developing ourselves. And we are constantly realizing things that we use to believe that now are totally different.

Who is to say that maybe they do have emo but that it comes in a different form from a different part of them. ?? Just saying...

[MustBeSatan]

I see... Attack me and my facts, and then claim that I am unwilling to sway my opinion (which is, again, based on the most up to date information available) and just shut down the discussion. Because I challenge you to back up your argument. It's the ol' religious debate strategy. Fine, I'm done... This discussion turned into me vs. you with no one else contributing anyways. Until you learn to accept facts rather than relying on what you "believe", there's no point in arguing with you.

By the way, it was religious leaders who rejected the theory that the world was round. They couldn't think outside their flat world box enough to accept scientific facts. Just sayin.

[Nate]

By the way, it was religious leaders who rejected the theory that the world was round. They couldn't think outside their flat world box enough to accept scientific facts. Just sayin.

Please - lets not turn this into a religious debate.

[MustBeSatan]

Woop, BPelizabeth, that wasn't directed at you (hope that was obvious), you posted while I was writing.

I think it's just too easy to fall into the human tendancy to place emotional significance on the actions of our reptiles where there is none. I was watching my Sudan Plated just a few minutes ago after I cleaned and filled his water bowl, and he came out of hiding, drank some, and then watched me intently. It was like he was saying "thanks! I was thirsty". In reality, he was probably deciding whether or not I was a threat, but I would like to think he still appreciates it.

[j_h_smith]

I see... Attack me and my facts, and then claim that I am unwilling to sway my opinion (which is, again, based on the most up to date information available) and just shut down the discussion. Because I challenge you to back up your argument. It's the ol' religious debate strategy. Fine, I'm done... This discussion turned into me vs. you with no one else contributing anyways. Until you learn to accept facts rather than relying on what you "believe", there's no point in arguing with you.

By the way, it was religious leaders who rejected the theory that the world was round. They couldn't think outside their flat world box enough to accept scientific facts. Just sayin.

I'm sorry if you think I attacked you. But you said it yourself, "based on the most up to date information available". This does not mean a definitive fact. Beyond reproach. Just facts as we know it today. You must open your mind to the notion that there is a possiblity that there is more out there than what we know at this time. I have never denied facts, but I'm asking you to look past what we know as fact today and what could be out there in the future. This goes much further than snakes and their emotion.

Why bring the religious factor into this dicussion?

BTW, did you ever listen to the 5th Demensions. They've got some interesting music?

Jim Smith

[MustBeSatan]

Please - lets not turn this into a religious debate.

Yeah, sry, that will be my one and only comment on the subject. From here on out it's all about inter-species love. Or lack there of.

Platonic love that is. Just thought I'd crush that one in the bud. Platonic, friend kinda love. That's all.

[MustBeSatan]

One day, maybe we will be able to communicate with animals. Maybe we will find out that they have emotion. But how can we hope to form educated opinions if we always just assume that what we know is wrong?

[coldblooded]

I'm always intrigued by these kind of arguments.

I am on the boat of "Reptiles do not have the mental facilities to experience emotions as humans know them." I believe they are instinctual creatures and based on what we know about brains and their structures I have no reason to believe otherwise.

I can see both sides of the argument here. Is it possible that reptiles have a larger mental capacity than what we give them credit for? I would like to think so. It was not long ago that it was thought that animals, and even infants, did not feel pain.

The brain is probably the most mysterious - and most studied - organs out there. I am certain that there is more to learn about its function in many creatures. Quick example - I suffered severe brain trauma and death as a child. I was resusciated and not expected to function normally due to my brain hemmoraging and a lack of oxygen (to the brain) for several minutes. Part of my left hemisphere was removed. Well... I function quite well, if I say so myself.

But even so, I do not feel that emotions are applicable to reptiles based on their behavior. Why would they need them? Reptiles do not bond to mates, they do not form friendships, a very high percentage of them are not maternal..

I could go on, but it's all speculation! I appreciate my animals for what they are and do not need them to conform themselves to what emotional expectations I might have for a pet.