Spider wobble in full effect

[starrlamia]

Seems pretty apparent to me that the animal in the first video, even with the exaggerated wobble, was still capable of striking and coiling its prey. It moves in jerky uncoordinated movements, but it can still lead a normal life. No reason to cull them off, especially since these "handicaps" don't surface until they reach a more mature state.

Also the spider shows the signs of the wobble, which is inherently a part of its genetic makeup, but I am 100% positive that other morphs out there have other "handicaps" that aren't so apparent. They could simply be internal deviations, or lack accurate vision, or the thermal pits could be skewed. We honestly do not know.

If and when you go to breed you simply need to understand that these are morphs, which in short form mean that they are merely mutations. With every mutation there are other factors that change other than just color. Don't crucify one morph for a genetic "fault" when one of your personal animals could have something far worse internally you do not know about, because the animal cannot tell you it can't see or smell properly.

the OP stated that he usually has to assist feed his spider which IMO means it should not be used in a breeding program and if showed signs as such as a hatchling should be culled.
I am well aware that morphs are genetic mutations and that there may be other effects that morph genes have on those specific morphs, but some are less severe then others, IMO a bad wobble is severe enough to not breed the animal.

[Kyle@theHeathertoft]

I'd like to add my two cents.

I love the look of the Spider morph. SO so pretty. I want my own Spider Mojave someday...maybe a Bumblebee or three...and I would die of sheer glee if I ever manage to aquire or breed a VPI axanthic Spider. OMG, SO MUCH GLEE.

I am not put off by the wobbling and still want a Spider because, honestly, this is not an animal that will have to worry about surviving in the cruel harsh real world wilderness. This will be a cherished pet as well as a breeding animal, and if I need to help it get ahold of it's prey, so be it. I highly doubt my lovable, stupid, BRAIN DAMAGED rescue-kitty could survive for more than two seconds outside the apartment, and more than once I've had to help her with food...her face is deformed (though she looks beautiful, she has mild entropion and her tear ducts face outwards, so she doesn't always see well) so she can't always find it when she is given a snack.

Do I refuse to keep her around because without human intervention she'd be helpless and likely starve to death or worse???? NO. As someone else pointed out, so long as they can strike and feed, there is no reason a Spider should be culled.

On that note, I believe I might name my future Spider Weeble. Because Weeble will wobble.

[singingtothewheat]

I have no idea if what they feel is like what I felt when I have a viral infection in my inner ear (viral labyrinthsitis) but if it is I feel very sorry for them. It is miserable not being able to get your balance. It's very frightening.

[starrlamia]

I'd like to add my two cents.

I love the look of the Spider morph. SO so pretty. I want my own Spider Mojave someday...maybe a Bumblebee or three...and I would die of sheer glee if I ever manage to aquire or breed a VPI axanthic Spider. OMG, SO MUCH GLEE.

I am not put off by the wobbling and still want a Spider because, honestly, this is not an animal that will have to worry about surviving in the cruel harsh real world wilderness. This will be a cherished pet as well as a breeding animal, and if I need to help it get ahold of it's prey, so be it. I highly doubt my lovable, stupid, BRAIN DAMAGED rescue-kitty could survive for more than two seconds outside the apartment, and more than once I've had to help her with food...her face is deformed (though she looks beautiful, she has mild entropion and her tear ducts face outwards, so she doesn't always see well) so she can't always find it when she is given a snack.

Do I refuse to keep her around because without human intervention she'd be helpless and likely starve to death or worse???? NO. As someone else pointed out, so long as they can strike and feed, there is no reason a Spider should be culled.

On that note, I believe I might name my future Spider Weeble. Because Weeble will wobble.

there is a difference between an animal having a handicap and breeding animals that have known handicaps. IE breeding an animal you know will produce said handicap. IMO it is unethical to breed animals that will have a known handicap. I know I have the unpopular opinion but I wouldnt do it for a dog or cat and I wouldnt do it in snakes.
BTW I dont plan on breeding, no interest and not enough knowledge.

[Delilah]

You really don't see her wobble? She's wobbling as soon as she releases the ASF. The twisting of her body before she released it is also very typical of the spider wobble/spin behavior as well. In some spiders it can be so subtle, that unless you know what you're looking for (or want to convince yourself that yours doesn't wobble) you won't see it.

I think that you're going to be very disappointed if you truly believe that the wobble can be bred out of the spider. Even the most "stable" spider can throw trainwreck babies. It's not about breeders out to make a quick buck - especially with the price of spiders today, there are many other morphs that can be worked with to "make a buck" with. Most people who keep and breed spiders do so because they love morph, even with its quirks.

The slight "wobble" you see with this spider when she releases her prey is not unlike what I observe in normals when feeding or targeting. The spin she does is a typical releasing maneuver to get her teeth out of the prey so she can get it out of her mouth. But I'm not saying this spider is free of the defect. Quite the opposite in fact. I am saying that what I thought was a wobble-free spider does in fact have problems that I think are connected to the wobble defect.
I am not going to let the fear of disappointment keep me from trying to breed out the defect. I believe it is a worthwhile venture. I love the spider trait as much as anyone, but I sure would love it more without the defect! And you know what, if you could ask the snake, I think she would agree.

D

[Delilah]

Consider this. Say I'm a giant alien lizard breeding humans. I like these really neat humans that have thick tongues and round faces. I think they look awfully cute. But unfortunately, this "morph" of human has negative traits associated with it. They have speech problems, poor cognitive function,... they have social problems- other members of the human "herd" tend to avoid specimens with the thick tongues. But oh well, nevermind that. I think they look cute, so I will breed more of them. (Can anyone guess the "morph" I'm referring to?)
So tell me,... do you think humans with this genetic defect should be intentionally selectively bred to make more humans with 'cute' thick tongues?

[bad-one]

I think trying to breed it out or attempt to minimalize it isn't a bad thing at all.


Something to consider though would be that comparing a snake to a human/dog/cat/etc isn't a very good example considering that snakes are far simpler in nature and they have fewer functions they must be able to preform (particularily in captivity).


I would love it if spiders didn't wobble, but I feel that it is seldom if at all a detriment.

Love them, hate them. We could debate this forever

[Tikall]

Consider this. Say I'm a giant alien lizard breeding humans. I like these really neat humans that have thick tongues and round faces. I think they look awfully cute. But unfortunately, this "morph" of human has negative traits associated with it. They have speech problems, poor cognitive function,... they have social problems- other members of the human "herd" tend to avoid specimens with the thick tongues. But oh well, nevermind that. I think they look cute, so I will breed more of them. (Can anyone guess the "morph" I'm referring to?)
So tell me,... do you think humans with this genetic defect should be intentionally selectively bred to make more humans with 'cute' thick tongues?

This is exactly how I feel about this... Say snakes are simple all day long, but having barely limited to severely limited control over their movements can't be a good time for anything.

[Skyespirit86]

I'd like to add my two cents.

I love the look of the Spider morph. SO so pretty. I want my own Spider Mojave someday...maybe a Bumblebee or three...and I would die of sheer glee if I ever manage to aquire or breed a VPI axanthic Spider. OMG, SO MUCH GLEE.

I am not put off by the wobbling and still want a Spider because, honestly, this is not an animal that will have to worry about surviving in the cruel harsh real world wilderness. This will be a cherished pet as well as a breeding animal, and if I need to help it get ahold of it's prey, so be it. I highly doubt my lovable, stupid, BRAIN DAMAGED rescue-kitty could survive for more than two seconds outside the apartment, and more than once I've had to help her with food...her face is deformed (though she looks beautiful, she has mild entropion and her tear ducts face outwards, so she doesn't always see well) so she can't always find it when she is given a snack.

Do I refuse to keep her around because without human intervention she'd be helpless and likely starve to death or worse???? NO. As someone else pointed out, so long as they can strike and feed, there is no reason a Spider should be culled.

On that note, I believe I might name my future Spider Weeble. Because Weeble will wobble.

I don't believe a handicapped animal that can be cared for in captivity without excess suffering should be culled, however it doesn't mean they should be intentionally bred. You didnt have you sick kitty intentionally bred- and who would be that cruel? Well thats easy to answer...look at some dogs. Its a shame if snake breeding goes that way. If there are internal things associated with mutations that affect the animal, then we do not know so it isnt anyones fault....if they exist then they are obviously are not serious enough for the animal to be stressed or incapable of acting normal, or we would see...
You aren't rescuing a wobbling spider like you did your handcapped cat, because you are a paying customer, supporting its deliberate breeding.
Even though the wobbling is variable, I think the fact it can be so bad, and cant apparently be bred out, and breeding one with low expression of it to another doesnt seem to work either, it should be avoided on ethical grounds. Shame since it is so attractive, but there are TONS of other royal morphs. And havent we learned with dog breeds for instance? Do we want reptile breeding to go the same way? We look at show dog breeders who disregard inherited diseases with disgust, yet can hardely call ourselves better if we support stuff like this. It is concern over appearance over health, end of story. And I am saying that even though I like their looks...but will not own one or support their breeding now.

I mean people are actually finding their suffering 'cute.' Like a wheezing, sick bulldog that won't live more than a few years. How do you know how this animal feels inside? They can't express emotion. Their neurological problem could be distressing. If you care about the snakes themselves, think of it from their point of view. Do they know/care what they look like? No. I walk a bullmastiff who can't run or do very much, but he has the instinct to run and play just like any dogs and his selective bred, rediculous body stops him being himself. Yet people 'love' them. I think if the problem is serious enough we should be strong with ourselves and not allow ourselves to be selfish like this.

[Dave763]

That's interesting actually. My spider does more of a corkscrewing act when he is exploring his tub but I'd never actually seen that kind of wobble. My spider does nothing at all like that. He may go topsy turvy and upside down but he's always smooth. And when its feeding time, he's all business, no corkscrewing.


Thanks for sharing.

My spiders don't have any corkscrewing or wobble

and thats the reason I will never own a spider or spider morph, as much as I think they are gorgeous, I cant justify perpetuating a morph with such an awful handicap.

No wobbles here. I have a male and three of his offspring female hold-backs

That really is so sad. My spiders dont do that, hope it stays that way

Not all spiders have a wobble.

I only have one and have bred for two more, I've never seen anything close to that. To me thats a real bad wobble you can't judge them all on that video.

I agree 100%

I had a little baby spider that had NO wobble no shake no vibe no screw no nothing. Now shes sold now so as maturity hits that might change, but there are at least some out there with NO sign at all

Thank you.....No Sign At All

yea my 09 female has not the slightest bit of a wobble-not even when feeding shes completely clear of wobbles. cant wait to see how her offspring come out this summer if all falls through!

Completely clear of wobbles....thank you

Saying all spiders wobble is like saying all caramels have kinks...it's just not so