Chocolates & Sables

[Southernshooter]

To everyone that posted [ics, Their beautiful snakes and pics

[RandyRemington]

It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:



Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:



The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.

[Sloanreptiles]

It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:



Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:



The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.

Thanks Randy! We saw the ones Marshall had and they were pretty cool looking! Hopefully theres a super! I think if anything they are a whole different morph because that baby is crazy looking! Congrats on such a cool project!

[AnthonyCaponetto]

It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:



Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:



The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.

That snake in the top pic almost looks more like a black pastel/cinny/red axanthic complex type snake. The reddish tones in the black and the faded looking head just don't scream sable or chocolate to me. Honestly, I think you may have something a little cooler than sables or chocolates. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the super looks like, but you may have something pretty neat.

[RandyRemington]

The two in my last post are pretty extreme examples. Remember that the last baby only survived a few days so I'm wondering if she might have been enhanced by a "classic jungle" syndrome (i.e. egg stress making a pretty snake). Maybe that's what a classic jungle chocolate looks like. I'd be fine with them being chocolates but mainly want to know and don't call them chocolates because I just don't know yet. It wiill still be hard to be sure they are the same even if the super does look like a homozygous chocolate but of course I’d love a nice surprise too.

There has been some variation in the babies from the 07 bigger girl in my last pics to that 08 male I sold not recognizing the more classic chocolate look in him as a hatchling. It's also possible the 07 is a combo. Daniel's dad for that clutch throws some dark smoky babies.

Will be fun to keep trying to figure this project out until the python police kick in my door or the economy gets so bad I have to eat them (sorry, a little extra cynicism before coffee).

[abi21491]

Wow, I hadn't checked this thread till now but awesome animals everyone. Today I picked up a very interesting CH female that I believe could be some kind of morph. She looks similar to a Berry line chocolate but she has a completely clear belly and her eyes are greenish like a pastel. I can't resist dinker projects. When I get the pics uploaded I would post them here.

[abi21491]

I just picked up this very unique CH female Ball Python. What do you guys think? It is hard to get accurate pics, but her black is very dark, she has really nice flames, alien heads, a completely clear belly, green eyes (like a pastel!) high contrast, and blushing throughout the black. Amazing! I really think she could be genetic. She has a velvety appearance. Input welcome

[RandyRemington]

Very interesting, she does have the broad dark areas.

[abi21491]

Very interesting, she does have the broad dark areas.

I can't stop peaking in on her, lol! If I had some young normals to put her next to it would be really obvious, but I don't. Maybe when some clutches are laid I'll be able to do it then.

[EmberBall]

Randy, your adult female looks pretty cool. I got my original Sulfur and Ember females at Reptile Haven too As cool as your female looks, the name might be the worst Ball name yet.

Good luck on the crosses and keep us posted.

Dave