Lesser and Piebalds crossings?

[mechnut450]

looks sweet I guess he pied part would not be proven until he breeds it back to a pied and get all pied and pesser pieds..

I wonder what a butter pied would look like future plan

[Lucas339]

no thats a lesser pied its just all white
in the video he says that

i guarantee RDR made that from a less het pied X lesser het pied making it a super lesser pied. it doesn't make sense that a lesser cross would end up all white without it being a super.

[Sprinkles]

i guarantee RDR made that from a less het pied X lesser het pied making it a super lesser pied. it doesn't make sense that a lesser cross would end up all white without it being a super.

How do you guarantee that? The clutch listed first on this page, along with the photo of the mother on the eggs and the sibs. The lesser gene has proven to be more than just a simple co-dom. The normal offspring of a platinum carries the gene for platinum while lessers do not. A lesser crossed with a phantom, whose own super form is something entirely different, also produces a white snake. There's no reason that that same odd trait could produce a white animal when mixed with piebald as well.

[Oxylepy]

The normal offspring of a platinum carries the gene for platinum while lessers do not.

Straight from Ralph's site:

I bred Lesser x normal looking sibling and produced Lessers, Normals and "Platty Daddys"

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...s/platinum.asp

Yeah, the Lessers (the ones from the platty) are het for a recessive gene that brightens up colours.

YouTube - 09 clutch # 16 "Daddy"

That video gives more proof that it's a recessive gene that will act on other morphs (the butter-daddy).

As for it being entirely white: it could be a supper lesser (BEL) or it could be an all white pied (in which case it's eyes may not be blue, although there is still a possibility, someone would need to confirm this with a pied over the eyes snake). The hidden gene has NOTHING to do with producing a BEL.

[Sprinkles]

Straight from Ralph's site:


http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...s/platinum.asp

Yeah, the Lessers (the ones from the platty) are het for a recessive gene that brightens up colours.

That's what I said: platinums are only produced from a lesser to a normal sib. You could breed that same lesser to a normal that was not the offspring of a platinum and you would only get lessers and normals.

[Oxylepy]

But if you bred those third generation snakes back to their parent or to a platty daddy you could get a platty daddy.

It sounds as if you're saying that Lessers from a Platty Daddy clutch do not have the hidden gene, when in reality EVERY one of the offspring from a Platty are ALL het for the hidden gene, the normals and the Lessers.

One of the nice things about this is: You can breed your own Lesser to another Lesser and happen to get a Daddy, or you can even breed your own Lesser to a seemingly normal ball and get a Daddy. I believe every Lesser is from the Daddy, and there are a lot of people with Lessers right now and a lot of normal offspring from Lessers, so you can never really know if you have one with the hidden trait or not.

[Sprinkles]

But if you bred those third generation snakes back to their parent or to a platty daddy you could get a platty daddy.

It sounds as if you're saying that Lessers from a Platty Daddy clutch do not have the hidden gene, when in reality EVERY one of the offspring from a Platty are ALL het for the hidden gene, the normals and the Lessers.

One of the nice things about this is: You can breed your own Lesser to another Lesser and happen to get a Daddy, or you can even breed your own Lesser to a seemingly normal ball and get a Daddy. I believe every Lesser is from the Daddy, and there are a lot of people with Lessers right now and a lot of normal offspring from Lessers, so you can never really know if you have one with the hidden trait or not.

I just went through RDR's birthing record, and for two years (2001-02) he bred his original platty daddy to several normal females and only produced lessers and normals. In 2003 he bred one of the lessers to a normal also sired by the original platinum male, and produced the first CB platty daddy. It's listed as clutch #44 on this page.

He also mentions it in one of his recent youtube videos YouTube - 09 clutch # 16 "Daddy" Ralph also talks about others accidentally making platinums in that video. He states that he believes that the normals the lessers were bred to must have the "daddy" gene. I'm not sure if that is true, but I'm more inclined to believe Ralph's theory, since he's been working with platinums longer than anyone else.

[Oxylepy]

Which would all make sense since it's a recessive trait (the daddy gene). But when you first said it:

The normal offspring of a platinum carries the gene for platinum while lessers do not.

It sounded as if you were claiming that none of the Lessers from a clutch sired by a daddy had the daddy gene in them, but they do, it's just het and to show it needs to be hom.

[Sprinkles]

Which would all make sense since it's a recessive trait (the daddy gene). But when you first said it it sounded as if you were claiming that none of the Lessers from a clutch sired by a daddy had the daddy gene in them, but they do, it's just het and to show it needs to be hom.

Oh, I see what you're saying. The thing is that it wasn't until recently (this year?) that someone got lucky enough to happen to breed their lesser to a normal that carried the daddy gene. Looking further in to Ralph's birthing records I see that he did produce more platinums from breeding the original "daddy" to one of it's lesser daughters.

I stand corrected that lessers do not carry the "daddy" gene. However I do stand by my original point that the gene, which seems to be unique to lessers/butters, proves that there is something about that morph that may have been the reason behind what causes a lesser pied to be entirely white.

[Oxylepy]

Oh I actually went back and looked at that video and it's stunning, yeah I like to jump into conversations ~_~

That could just be a fluke, not that I am hoping it was but just that it is a possibility. Then again it may not be a simple Lesser Pied, it could be a Lesser het Daddy Pied, all of which would require more investigation.