I inherited a beardie and i could use a little help

[crystal]

Hi!
I apologize in advance for the book I'm about to write.
I was given a 1 year old male beardie from a friend that was moving away. We've had him for a few weeks now and he doesnt seem to be doing so well. We baby sat him for a while when he was really small and he had this weird thing going on with his lips where they looked like they were chapped. They were keeping him on sand and it looked like his lips were irritated. When he moved in with us his lips were VERY bad. (think the most horrific chapped lips you have ever seen) They were scabbed and they had become misshapen like he had a duck bill. My friend was putting neosporin on them twice a day as recommended by the vet. The vet said he had never seen anything like it before and i couldnt find anything like it on the internet. Anyhow, once he got here I stopped putting neosporin on it so that it would heal. The neosporin just moistened up the scabs and made it all gooey. After a couple of baths I had to pull the big scabs off his lips because he couldnt open his mouth, it was scabbed shut. It didnt bleed or anything it just pulled a bunch of yellow goo off. About 2 days later the horn on his top lip pulled off in the night. It was hard and his top lip had the yellow goo but not much and it looks healed now. His bottom lip horn fell off last night, and his bottom lips looks a little gooey. I put a little neosporin on where it fell off cause it looked raw. Do any of you know what it could be or what i could do to prevent it from happening again? My friend said that it gets real scabby all the time she would just peel it off in the bath, then it would come back a few days later.

Part 2 ( i told you it was long)
Ok so when we got the beardie, the people we got him from were feeding him nothing but super worms and the occasional leaf of lettuce. They said the vet told them that crickets were bad for dragons and that he should never be fed crickets again. Anyhow, when he got here he ate a whole bunch of dandelion greens and at as many super worms as he could eat. I tried giving him crickets (in a separate container) and he just kinda sat there and looked at me like I was crazy. Then about the time his upper lip horn fell off he stopped eating greens all together. He went from eating only the super worms to eating only one a day and now none. And for the last 3 days he wont eat anything. I've tried giving him all different kinds of things. I tried apples kiwis green yellow and red peppers, lettuce, dandelion greens, escarole, collard greens, butter lettuce and even commercial dragon food. He wont have any of it. I dont know what to do. He hasn't eaten now in 3 days. He poops and pees regularly but hes acting very lethargic and hes looking real skinny. He had a bath 2 days ago and pooped one day ago. Hes in a 40 breeder tank on carpet (thats what he arrived on I plan on changing to alfalfa pellets on pay day) He has two hide logs, a climbing stick, a rock and two dishes one for water and one for greens. His tank is 85 on the cool side and 92 on the hot side and he has a brand new uvb bulb. At night the cool side is about 70 and his basking spot is around 82. I bathe him every 2 or 3 days and he always poops in the water after he finishes drinking. Also he always drinks a whole lot of water in his bath and then as soon as we pick him up to put back in his house he spits it all back up. (I dont think its a RI because its only when he drinks water and he doesnt wheeze or couch or gape his mouth open). I'm at my wits end. This morning when I turned on his lights he didnt want to wake up and he wouldnt wave at me like he always does when I wake him up for the day. He just sits on his log and looks not good. I dont want him to die and i dont want him to be sick.

Thank you so much for reading all this and any advice would be greatly appreciated. I really want him to get healthy and be a happy dragon.

[dr del]

Hi,

Just before they ask - can you get any good pics of his mouth?

Were they using any suppliments on his food and did they have a good uv bulb?

Just to help people understand his history a little better.

Do you have a GOOD reptile vet near you?


dr del

[crystal]

Hi Thanks for your response. Here are the best pictures i can get at the moment.


thats the side view. hes not scabbed right now because we peeled them off about two days back, but they do flair out and they look raw.


thats the top of his nose. see how its all gooey? also he must be some kind of morph because when he gets angry he turns the light yellow of the goo on his nose.


thats his bottom lip horn. i know the picture is bad but if you were to imagine what fried chicken skin looks like thats what the horn thing looks like and it has the same texture.

i apologize for the bad quality of the pictures, my camera is broken so im using my cell phone.

As for the earlier uvb bulb, i dont know if it was good or not. they couldnt remember the last time they changed it. it was one of those long skinny tube bulbs. i still have it but i dont know how to check if its still effective or not. i usually just change it every 6 months.

The vet the brought him to was a Banfield Animal Hospital vet. It didnt have the actual vets name on the triple antibiotic ointment he prescribed. i dont know if there is a 'good' reptile vet in Spokane. I brought one of my snakes to a VCA Animal hospital in town for suspected parasites and we gave him medicine that was given to us. 3 months later he died from those nasty spaghetti like parasites. Needless to say Im not too sure if the VCA vet is any good either.

Also i'm not sure if this is ok or if it even has any bearing but i figured the more info i give the better you will be able to help me. My little dragon has a bunch of broken toe nails and his toes are like half cooked spaghetti noodles. Im not sure what they are supposed to be like, but it just didnt seem right.

And the only supplement they were using is the calcium dust from flukers.

[dr del]

Oh the poor lil guy,

I wish I knew enough about beardies to be able to help.

My guesses would be MBD caused by poor diet and housing and a secondary infection running rampant. But, I repeat, I know nothing about beardies so you need to get better opinions.

Are there any zoos, breeders or good pet shops around you that you could ask for vet recommendations or anything?

Any of you guys reading this know a good vet or other ways to help?


dr del

[Beardedragon]

Ok, from the pictures it looks like her has a very bad case of mouth rot. You HAVE to find a vet that will take care of it, because your vet im sorry to say sucks in this field if they have never seen mouth rot. Make sure to go to a good herp vet and find out exactly what kinda infection it is (-get tests done - it could be bacterial, viral or fungal). and then you can treat it accordingly...

Mouth rot or,stomatitis, is pretty much caused by an absess in his mouth from an injury to the mouth, gums, or both. It is also caused by improper temperatures as well, which will weaken the immune system. If he was not kept at proper temps they cannot digest their foods very well & can also develop GI distress. GI infections can turn into mouth rot as well or a mouth infection. Mouth rot will look like a pus pocket or some describe it as cottage cheese like looking substance in the mouth.

Also ... If your beardie has an infection on any part of their body, do NOT use hydrogen peroxide. Ive seen hydrogen peroxide eat away good flesh on beardies on other forums.

Bump your basking temp to 106, the temps you have him on now are way too low. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THE BRAND OF UVB!!! There is only one type of tube flourescent I trust and thats a reptisun 10.0. UVB is nothing to be unsure about.


Get his tank as bare as possible, switch to paper towels ( What ever you do, do not use Alpha pellets...) and take away all hides and suck. You really need to get him to a vet...

Keep trying crickets, That vet is stupid for saying do not use crickets... Make sure he is getting all his calcium and vits too, I suggest rep-cal Calciam and vits with d3.

Again, look up a good vet and get him there ASAP.

Hope this helps! - Matt

[dr del]

Hi,

Managed to find the post I made on how to find a close reptile vet.

Here are a few links to help you find a good vet;

Link 1. (go to seach membership directory )

Link 2.

Link 3.

Link 4.

Hope this helps a bit.


dr del

[Beardedragon]

Ok, from the pictures it looks like her has a very bad case of mouth rot. You HAVE to find a vet that will take care of it, because your vet im sorry to say sucks in this field if they have never seen mouth rot. Make sure to go to a good herp vet and find out exactly what kinda infection it is (-get tests done - it could be bacterial, viral or fungal). and then you can treat it accordingly...

Mouth rot or,stomatitis, is pretty much caused by an absess in his mouth from an injury to the mouth, gums, or both. It is also caused by improper temperatures as well, which will weaken the immune system. If he was not kept at proper temps they cannot digest their foods very well & can also develop GI distress. GI infections can turn into mouth rot as well or a mouth infection. Mouth rot will look like a pus pocket or some describe it as cottage cheese like looking substance in the mouth.

Also ... In case someone tells you too ( this is becoming more common so this is why i say it) If your beardie has an infection on any part of their body, do NOT use hydrogen peroxide. Ive seen hydrogen peroxide eat away good flesh on beardies on other forums.

Bump your basking temp to 106, the temps you have him on now are way too low. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THE BRAND OF UVB!!! There is only one type of tube flourescent I trust and thats a reptisun 10.0. UVB is nothing to be unsure about.


Get his tank as bare as possible, switch to paper towels ( What ever you do, do not use Alfalfa pellets...) and take away all hides and such, they do fine in a properly sized tank with just a basking log or what ever you use. You really need to get him to a vet...

Keep trying crickets, That vet is stupid for saying do not use crickets... Make sure he is getting all his calcium and vits too, I suggest rep-cal Calciam and vits with d3.

Again, look up a good vet and get him there ASAP.

Hope this helps! - Matt

My computer did not want me to edit that post! It crashed and locked up when I went to edit it...

Anyways, again, get him to a good vet and do not peel off the scabs, how would it feel if someone was ripping off scabs on your face?

[West Coast Jungle]

Very sorry about your beardie but I think Matt is right on with temps and mouth rot. The lack of proper UV and low temps long term can lead to many types of immune deficency diseases. The worm diet is a high fat diet. I would at least try to supplement them with Herpvite powder which will give him proteins and other important minerals and vitamins. That and good UV lighting and a basking spot at least 100 degrees will help him get stronger. A veterinary herp specialist is definately in order but unfortunately some times very hard to find as you have experienced. A Mercury Vapor bulb can provide both heat and UV basking spot. I use them and the reptisun 10. flourescent UV bulbs.

Good luck

[West Coast Jungle]

Just checking a Beardie book "The Bearded Dragon Manual" by Philippe de Vosjoli (and others).

In the trouble shooting health chart section it mentions; Infectious Stomatitis, "Mouth Rot".

"Unusual in bearded dragons and usually secondary to weakened oral tissues as seen with low calcium. Increase heat; offer a good basking gradient. Gently clean oral tissue with dilute Betadine, removing all the loose and dead tissue. For all but the mildest cases, see veterinarian for antibiotics and to correct underlying condintions"

Hope this was helpful.

[python.princess]

I just want to add a little to the other guys' posts... My beardie is sometimes stubborn and will only eat if I hand feed him. He won't eat fruits/veggies unless it's by hand. And sometimes (not often) I have to feed him worms off the tongs. If his mouth is too bad, that may be why he's not eating, though. But you could try handfeeding and see how it goes!

Just be sure to dust with supplement powder! Sounds like he sorely needs it!!

Good luck!