what kind of BP is this? I am so confused...

[cornball252]

Its not about what methods work for you. It should be about whats best for the snake.

now back to your ? Its a nice looking normal

Thanks

[4theSNAKElady]

While I appreciate your endorsement of what I wrote earlier, I have to step in again and say that this is SO NOT TRUE. Not to say that we don't have our share of folks who act like they know it all and their way of doing things is the only right way...or that their opinion is the only one that matters. But what would you expect in a group this size? We have literally hundreds of different people participating each and every day. Not all of them are naturally inclined to be nice and diplomatic. Some folks feel compelled to speak their mind and don't care how others take it.

Should all the tremendous amount of GOOD that goes on here be negated and dismissed because a few people get upset when they see what LOOKS like neglect and abuse of animals? Or when folks get argumentative toward someone who comes looking for advice then dismisses it?

Have you seen how many rescued snakes have been brought back from the brink of death through the tremendous help of folks here? How many pet-store impulse purchases are transformed into ideal environments because of the people here willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again for each and every new person who comes looking for help? Have you seen the community here rally together around someone who has lost an animal or a loved one....or a home??? Did you not see the thousands of dollars raised on simple donations from every-day members here for one who's home was burned to the ground?

If all you...or anyone else sees....are the negative aspects of this site...then I dare to think that's all such a person really wants to see. It's so much easier to spot the negative and get an attitude about it...than it is to savor the good and appreciate it...even when the good outweighs the negative by vast magnitudes.

......
Yeah....I totally second Robin on this one.
Judy, that's why you're "Da man"!!!

[sg1trogdor]

normals can have clear bellies and solid black down his sides?

Yea gotta love not having any room to work with!!! snakes eatin on the floor

Yuppers I have a male just like that one that I named "Ziggy" because o f the black zigzags on the edge of his belly.

[ama1997]

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Well, it has the neck spot that's stated to be a granite marker in the guide to the morphs.

Granite is co-dom if it is genetic, so breeding him and getting some granite babies would prove it out. Breed him to a granite female, and see if you get super-granites.

As for taking belly-shots of the snake, I've seen a LOT of belly-shots on the web, and I kind of wonder how exactly folks think those photos are taken. Hint--the snake does not voluntarily roll over onto its back. If it's an aggressive snake, you had better believe the person holding the head end isn't letting the snake chew on him while the photo is snapped.

The momentary discomfort suffered by the snake while its belly photos were taken is not exactly a major event in its life. It's probably a great deal less stressful than a veterinary exam, or being moved to a new location. It's probably about as much of an issue as being probed for gender, something else people do that requires restraining the snake.

Although the snake has its tongue hanging out, which makes it look like it's being strangled, it's probably just putting a lot of effort into pulling back to escape the restraint. Snakes hate being restrained. We do it sometimes anyhow--to examine them, to sex them, to administer meds, or...to take belly photos.

Feeding the snakes on the floor is weird, but if the floor's 80 degrees, I don't see why that's a big issue. They should all be housed individually...if they are not, that's a different problem entirely, and people should be complaining about that, not about the fact he feeds them outside of their cage. Obviously they are eating, so he's not feeding them wrong.

I have a nasty female ball python. If I have to do something with her, beyond moving her to clean her cage (I use a hook for that--and even that is a struggle, as I have to hang on to her tail to keep her from catapulting), you better BELIEVE I grab her behind the neck, and I make darned sure she can't bite me. I have no desire to be bitten by an adult ball python if I CAN avoid it. If I had to take belly photos, they'd probably look something like the OP's.
This snake was handleable when she was stressed from shipping. As she settled in, she got worse and worse, (pulling tricks like lunging at your body while you held her in your hands) until now it isn't safe to free-handle her at all. The more comfortable she became, the worse her temperament got. She now eats frozen-thawed off the tongs without any issue at all. She just plain would rather bite you than let you touch her, regardless of how gentle you are about it.

Yes, if you own snakes, you will be bitten. A bite from an adult ball python could cause serious injury if it nicked the wrong thing, or became infected. It is not bright to ALLOW one to bite you, if you can avoid it. It is not abuse to temporarily restrain an aggressive snake. Doing so does not injure the snake. Is it 'mean'? Well, handling your snakes at all is 'mean', they don't enjoy it and it's stressful for them, much as folks might like to think otherwise. It's a minor bit of 'mean' done for the snake's own good (the answer to the question the OP posted might positively affect its future), and for the owner's good (keeping them in captivity at all is PURELY for our good, not theirs).

If you want to let your aggressive snakes bite you instead of restraining them...well, you go right ahead with that. But don't think it makes your handling methods superior--it seems rather foolhardy to me. Choosing between making the snake temporarily uncomfortable and allowing it to make me bleed? No-brainer there. Snake gets grabbed, and I remain unperforated. The snake will get over the indignity fairly quickly. I dare say, quicker than my wounds would have healed.

[Haydenphoto]

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

LOL i have a few females like that and i have to say the ones that are mean seem to be the ones that always breed with no probs for me

[cornball252]

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

lol you obviously haven't even skimmed through this thread. otherwise you would understand im not afraid of being bit. first off if you take a look at page eight you will see my fiance holding the snake like the rest of you "expert" snake handlers... its not like we walk around holding the thing behind the neck for everything we do... I would like one of you to explain to me how you would hold an aggressive snake upside down for a belly picture. then do it so we can see you getting bit and laugh.... once again... I'll do things my way.. because your way seems a bit stupid... no offense....

Well, it has the neck spot that's stated to be a granite marker in the guide to the morphs.

Granite is co-dom if it is genetic, so breeding him and getting some granite babies would prove it out. Breed him to a granite female, and see if you get super-granites.

As for taking belly-shots of the snake, I've seen a LOT of belly-shots on the web, and I kind of wonder how exactly folks think those photos are taken. Hint--the snake does not voluntarily roll over onto its back. If it's an aggressive snake, you had better believe the person holding the head end isn't letting the snake chew on him while the photo is snapped.

The momentary discomfort suffered by the snake while its belly photos were taken is not exactly a major event in its life. It's probably a great deal less stressful than a veterinary exam, or being moved to a new location. It's probably about as much of an issue as being probed for gender, something else people do that requires restraining the snake.

Although the snake has its tongue hanging out, which makes it look like it's being strangled, it's probably just putting a lot of effort into pulling back to escape the restraint. Snakes hate being restrained. We do it sometimes anyhow--to examine them, to sex them, to administer meds, or...to take belly photos.

Feeding the snakes on the floor is weird, but if the floor's 80 degrees, I don't see why that's a big issue. They should all be housed individually...if they are not, that's a different problem entirely, and people should be complaining about that, not about the fact he feeds them outside of their cage. Obviously they are eating, so he's not feeding them wrong.

I have a nasty female ball python. If I have to do something with her, beyond moving her to clean her cage (I use a hook for that--and even that is a struggle, as I have to hang on to her tail to keep her from catapulting), you better BELIEVE I grab her behind the neck, and I make darned sure she can't bite me. I have no desire to be bitten by an adult ball python if I CAN avoid it. If I had to take belly photos, they'd probably look something like the OP's.
This snake was handleable when she was stressed from shipping. As she settled in, she got worse and worse, (pulling tricks like lunging at your body while you held her in your hands) until now it isn't safe to free-handle her at all. The more comfortable she became, the worse her temperament got. She now eats frozen-thawed off the tongs without any issue at all. She just plain would rather bite you than let you touch her, regardless of how gentle you are about it.

Yes, if you own snakes, you will be bitten. A bite from an adult ball python could cause serious injury if it nicked the wrong thing, or became infected. It is not bright to ALLOW one to bite you, if you can avoid it. It is not abuse to temporarily restrain an aggressive snake. Doing so does not injure the snake. Is it 'mean'? Well, handling your snakes at all is 'mean', they don't enjoy it and it's stressful for them, much as folks might like to think otherwise. It's a minor bit of 'mean' done for the snake's own good (the answer to the question the OP posted might positively affect its future), and for the owner's good (keeping them in captivity at all is PURELY for our good, not theirs).

If you want to let your aggressive snakes bite you instead of restraining them...well, you go right ahead with that. But don't think it makes your handling methods superior--it seems rather foolhardy to me. Choosing between making the snake temporarily uncomfortable and allowing it to make me bleed? No-brainer there. Snake gets grabbed, and I remain unperforated. The snake will get over the indignity fairly quickly. I dare say, quicker than my wounds would have healed.

I wish there were more intelligent people like you.

[Elise.m]

I just read through all 10 pages of this thread (Yay being laid off... -_-) and you've said how you're not afraid of being bitten and what not, how you have a hook... But I've read that if you just let the snake bite you and don't react to it, it'll realize that biting does no good. So do you have gloves/arm guards? Maybe if you show him that biting does not get rid of you, he'll calm down. Just what I've observed

[cornball252]

I just read through all 10 pages of this thread (Yay being laid off... -_-) and you've said how you're not afraid of being bitten and what not, how you have a hook... But I've read that if you just let the snake bite you and don't react to it, it'll realize that biting does no good. So do you have gloves/arm guards? Maybe if you show him that biting does not get rid of you, he'll calm down. Just what I've observed

Yes i do ahave gloves and no it hasnt worked for him..

[abuja]

Everyone just needs to be quiet and give up. There are two sides to this argument here, and obviously neither side is ever going to back down and neither side is going to change their minds.

This is useless; getting all worked up over something that won't be changed. The OP gets it, so stop adding posts that are arguing. I'm not defending the OP, nor am I defending the others, but it is time everyone stops being obsessive with changing other people's minds.

No one is going to die, nothing bad is going to happen if we just stop. Just stop...