400g '08 Pastel Female?

[MustBeSatan]

Found a Pastel BP on Kijiji for $300. Apparently it was born in February of 2008, but it only weighs about 400g, which, unless she suddenly EXPLODES into a huge snake, she wont be ready to breed next season. With a reptile expo coming up in a month and limited funds, what would you guys do? Buy or pass?

For the record, I really didn't want to make a post like this after seeing the number of them there already are, but I'm too new to this to be able to base my decision on anything really concrete. Thanks for any advice you have!

Nick

[Elise.m]

If you're new to Ball Pythons, I would suggest getting a baby and raising it up. You'll need to learn all the patience they require.

[Beto510]

x2


=D

[MustBeSatan]

I'm new to Ball Pythons, but not new to snakes. I've been keeping snakes and other reptiles for about 4 or 5 years now. Ball pythons are fairely new to me, although I've done all my research two or three times over before deciding to give BPs a try. The thing I haven't mastered is all the exorbitant prices all the different morphs demand, and there is such a range it's very hard to nail down a reasonable figure.

Also, I haven't been able to find any kind of growth chart for BPs. If I had, I wouldn't have posted.

[LadyOhh]

400g for an 08 is a fairly reasonable size... not huge, but not tiny either. Some animals grow much more slowly than others.

If you are looking for a soon to breed breeder, I would pass. If you are looking to learn more about BPs and how they grow, adjust, etc... I would take it.

[MustBeSatan]

Thank you for the advice LadyOhh. I was a little bit worried because the numbers I was seeing online from others were much larger than 400g, but I found so few numbers that I really couldn't judge for sure. Much appreciated!

[WingedWolfPsion]

My 2008 mouser pastel is 473 grams, and my ratters are over 600, but I would not be concerned that a 2008 snake at 400 grams is undersized. It may have been a late '08, it may be on a 7 day feeding schedule (mine are on 5 day), or it might be a mouser. It might even just be a slow grower, or destined to be a smaller snake.

Folks are in a huge hurry to grow their snakes up to breed in one year, but that is EXTREMELY rare, and unrealistic. You can get some of them up to size in 2 years, but the most reasonable time frame for females is three years. They get up to around 500 grams the first year, then 1000 the second, and 1500 the third.

Some grow much faster than this--some grow a bit slower. But it's MUCH better to wait a year if your girl is 1485 going into the breeding season, and get her up to 1900 grams for the NEXT year than it is to breed her too small and possibly stunt her growth as a result.

My personal theory, which is supported by observing other species, is that if you breed an animal when it is small, it will not achieve all of its potential for size. And in general, larger ball pythons lay larger clutches, so why rush it?

Watching pastels grow up is fun--their colors are at their peak when they're about a year old, in my opinion--after that, they may start to brown out and change. This is not to say that adult pastels aren't pretty--even a very browned-out pastel is gorgeous in person, and of course better quality pastels hold their color better than others. There are two minds about pastels--the high yellow 'lemon' pastels are favored by some, while the browner but extremely blushy 'Graziani' type pastels are favored by others. Of course they aren't real 'lemons' or 'Grazianis' unless they come from those breeders, but the names have caught on for the general appearances. They're two very different-looking snakes.

[MustBeSatan]

Pastels are definately one of my favorite morphs, so I was excited to find someone selling one locally! I think I had it stuck in my mind a quote from a site I was reading the other day that "females are generally ready to breed after their second winter", which for an early '08 would be early '10, but that must be a very optimistic statistic. I would definately wait until any female I was going to breed was a good size... I'm not trying to rush into this too fast, but when I read the ad for this snake my mind instantly went to "OMG PASTEL BREEDING SOON" because of the aformentioned quote. Silly me! I really appreciate your detailed post, Wolf, your size estimations help me alot.

I'm still debating! I really only have a few hundred dollars to spend on snakes right now, and if I buy this girl I wont have very much left for the Expo in September... So it's a tough call. I've never been to a reptile Expo the size of the one I'm going to in Sept. so I don't know what I'll find there! Ah! Decisions, decisions...

Nick

[bobmurffy]

If you don't have a ton of money you should look into buying the female pastel if it is from a good source. Then save the money you have left over and wait since it will take another year and 1/2 at least before the female can breed. when you get more money buy a baby male and raise it up since males can be mated at 500g's and around a year of age. That way you can save up and buy a male pastel and make super pastels!!

[Haydenphoto]

300 is a lot for her look around you should be able to find one for cheaper i got my 08 pastel female for 200 and she will be ready to breed this year