Good "companions" for a burm?

[fishmommy]

Last I heard, plants wouldn't be eaten or terrorized, won't escape, and won't attack the snake. Unless Wilomn wants to object that there might not be plants in Asia or that the plants might be scented with prey items and be eaten. You may end up with a vegetarian snake, which PETA would jump ALL over!

HAHAHAHA!

actually, I think the argument might involve the fact that you have no proof that plants won't escape or attack the snake. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF???

[orphan]

HAHAHAHA!

actually, I think the argument might involve the fact that you have no proof that plants won't escape or attack the snake. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF???

You must have never seen the documentary called "Little Shop of Horrors"?

[wilomn]

Last I heard, plants wouldn't be eaten or terrorized, won't escape, and won't attack the snake. Unless Wilomn wants to object that there might not be plants in Asia or that the plants might be scented with prey items and be eaten. You may end up with a vegetarian snake, which PETA would jump ALL over!

Now now Wolfy, I didn't start this there are no frogs in Asia stuff so don't blame me for that bit of stupidity.

As far as live plants, some are toxic. Not many and a bit of simple research will tell which are which.

The vine thing is a fine idea but I bet you've never kept large snakes. NO plants will survive being steamrolled the way a really big one could.

Also, what if the poor guy got one of those flesh eating plants or some other similar species that uses scent to lure prey, animal prey, and it ate that? Hmmmm????

Anyway, back to seriousness, live plants and large snakes look good for about an hour. Then you have smushed plants and a snake who's cage needs cleaning.

The frogs really wouldn't be a problem for the snake, especially once it was past the 4-5 foot range. Again, the simple act of moving about the cage may injure the frog or frogs, but I hardly think the snake would be seeking them out. Also, many tree frogs will climb as high as they can which would be out of range of the snake. They also like to find nooks and crannies that would also be inaccessible to the snake.

[wilomn]

HAHAHAHA!

actually, I think the argument might involve the fact that you have no proof that plants won't escape or attack the snake. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF???

You know, FM, no one has taken a stand on plants, no one has postulated a theory about keeping them and the possible affects on the snake.

Had they, and had they done so by merely regurgitating unsubstantiated rumor, I would most assuredly have asked for proof. For two reasons.

First, if it's out there, I'd like to know. I am always seeking to enhance what little knowledge I have managed to compile.

Second, what's the point of puking up crap over and over so often that it's believed merely because its so often repeated?

Wouldn't you rather know that what you think is true is or is not factual?

I prefer not to pass on what I do not know. I know that puts me in a minority at least in this thread, but I'll do it my way or not at all. If that bothers you, any of you, use the ignore function.

[fishmommy]

it doesn't bother me a bit
it's quite hilarious and usually informative

I question assumptions and produce proofs for a living....I actually agree with you 100%. but it's still funny in it's predictability, I still roll my eyes a lot, and I still hear circus music in my head every time you post. but yeah, you're usually right.

[wilomn]

it doesn't bother me a bit
it's quite hilarious and usually informative

I question assumptions and produce proofs for a living....I actually agree with you 100%. but it's still funny in it's predictability, I still roll my eyes a lot, and I still hear circus music in my head every time you post. but yeah, you're usually right.

Excellent well then, things are preceding precisely as I had planned

Muahahahahahahahahahahah

[Enser54]

Keeping in mind that I know VERY little about burms, I have a suggestion to put in for your consideration. I don't know how much a burm is going to climb and use the vertical space of the cage. (Correct me if I am wrong here) If that is the case, why not install a single sheet of plexigless across the top 1-2 feet of the cage? Said plexiglass could act as a divider, allowing you to put frogs or geckos or something that doesn't require addition heat into the vertical space, without the sanitary/safety issues which everyone else has already brought up. If would essentially be like having two enclosures in that space, and you could remove the plexiglass later when the burm outgrows the enclosure and you get something else.

It may be a horrible idea, other people will have to comment. Just something to consider before throwing some poor little froggies in with a burm.

This is what I was thinking, I don't really think a burm would use all that space up top. I would split that enclosure up by the top where the mantle is. In the lower area, put a semiaboreal snake like a carpet that will use the perches and paint the background to give it the feel of the lower area of a tree? Then in the top area, fill it with a lot of foliage so its like the top of the tree and put in an eye catching display snake like a red or yellow amazon tree boa. Two animals that will get the most out of such an enclosure.

[wolfy-hound]

I was thinking that the vines and plants would be higher up than the burm would attempt to reach. Well, that and yanking Wilomn's chain cause I never get to.. lol.

I'm a huge fan of pointing out that you can't prove a negative. You can't prove I have not kept burms. I can't prove I have not kept burms. I CAN prove I've kept balls, but I can't prove I have NOT kept balls. (Unless you use "beyond a reasonable doubt")

Plant COULD climb down and eat the burmese. After all, I once had a geranium plant, and I saw a tree frog in it. Later I went back, and the tree frog was GONE!!!! So OBVIOUSLY the geranium ATE it! And ATE IT ALIVE!! It must have been gruesome.

I need a life. Or candy. Either would do.

[fishmommy]

I recently spent several months trying to prove to the MA dept of revenue that I DID NOT live in their state. Very very difficult!

[daniel1983]

Mixed species vivaria with larger species are somewhat rare. To be quite honest, all I have seen are a few anaconda enclosures with fish in the water feature....one had a brazilian rainbow boa that was in a 'root structure' on land. I have seen many things with smaller reptiles though.

Here are my thoughts on doing a multi-species enclosure with a burm...

I would worry that the burm could crush small terrestrial animals since they are in a confined space. If you offered fixed shelters for refuge, you should not have as many problems. You could also go with arboreal lizards (i.e. tokay geckos) or maybe even small arboreal snakes that would most likely remain completely off the ground.

Small species + big enclosure = scarce food items. If attempting the enclosure with lizards and frogs, the only way to get adequate food to them would be to feed 'heavy' every time. This would cause excessive loose insects in the enclosure. While flies for frogs may not be a problem, crickets will eat at the burm if left loose in the enclosure with no significant food and water (no joke!!). If you provide food and water for feeder insects in the enclosure, then you have to worry about them breeding....and that is a whole different mess. If you go the snake route, feeding a smaller snake in an enclosure with a burm could cause all sorts of trouble if not done properly....the scent of rodent in the air is not something to mess with and you will have to be constantly aware of the burm while feeding the other snake/s.

Aside from those issues, I don't really see nothing wrong with it.....IF you are providing the right environmental conditions for the species added The moisture needed for most frogs could lead to scale rot issues with the burm. You could partition a part of the enclosure off for the moisture, but if you were to go that far you might as well setup another enclosure for the frogs.

That all considered. I would be more concerned with enclosure maintenance and cleaning than anything else. With mixed species enclosures, it is best to have a 'do not disturb' sort of setup (i.e. bioactive substrate, insects to feed on waste, etc.) .... and with a 10 pound burm crap...I don't see how you could avoid completely cleaning out the enclosure regularly.


EDIT: I just looked at the cage pictures and from the layout of the cage and its size, I would say it would be much better suited for a green tree boa/tree frog/gecko enclosure. That is just my take though. Maybe when the burm outgrows that cage, you can modify it for something else