The effects of ball pythons on the reptile community

[firehop]

I am curious, what behavior are you speaking of?

Thanks

As someone outside the ball python circle, my really one beef is the morph issue. I saw some of the genetic bad stuff first hand at Daytona last year. The table next to us had all kinds of bp morphs as well as other boid morphs. They were a jobber and produced nothing on their table. I freaked out when I saw the behavior of the spider balls they were selling. I actually thought there was some type of desease involved and affraid for our emeralds. I actually went looking at different ball breeders tables to see if any of their spiders acted that way. Most did and after asking others about the behavior, learned that this was "normal" for spiders.

I am not a radical when it comes to inbreeding (linebreeding), it is just something I disagree with and will never knowingly do. The bp market is growing so fast that there has to be pressure to produce the popular morphs and I have a feeling that some may forgo common sense and maybe carry the line breeding too far. I have a feeling that unlike most hobbiests, big breeders consider their animals as livestock and not pets, with the market being the driving force behind their mass production. With that maybe some animals that should have been culled (meaning sold as non-breeders) have been sold with maybe some misinformation about their origins or genetic viability.

Craig

[CraigC]

I am curious, what behavior are you speaking of?

Thanks

The head would twist backward and upside down, like the snake was trying to crawl upside down. It would do this until maybe 1/5 of it's body was upside down, backward and paralell to the rest of it's body. Then the head would flop to one side and it would "right" itself. It and others in the display case would do this over and over again. Didn't seem like normal behavior to me, nor the folks at the table on the other side of us.

Craig

[firehop]

I personally have never seen this other than when any snake is in a real small enclosure and is trying to get leverage to push the wall. If this is "normal" for morphs I haven’t seen it in any of mine do this. If anyone else has seen this I would be interested in finding out more.

Thanks

[daniel1983]

I personally have never seen this other than when any snake is in a real small enclosure and is trying to get leverage to push the wall. If this is "normal" for morphs I haven’t seen it in any of mine do this. If anyone else has seen this I would be interested in finding out more.

Thanks

What Craig was mentioning is not the 'norm' for morphs. Animals can have genetic defects...plain and simple....you could breed normals and end up with problems. If some idiot is trying selling a snake with defects without the customers knowing, then they deserve to be blacklisted.

I have seen 'spinning' spiders before...I seen normals do the same thing too. But no respectable breeder would ever sell or breed such animals...if you see a defected snake on someone's table being sold as a 'perfectly ok' animal, I would suggest just passing that breeder by. Usually when people keep those kind of animals....they are kept on a 'pet only' basis.

Also, snakes and other reptiles exposed to high temperatures can develop neurological disorders that cause them to 'spasm'....other sicknesses like IBD can also cause weird movements....so not all odd snake behaviors can be blamed on their genetics.

[CraigC]

That was my point, the "sellers" that I asked about it told me that was "normal" behavior. Obviously it wasn't and they had no qualms about selling these animals as normal. My only conclusion when someone sells an animal with obvious problems and calls it normal, is they only have eyes for the money.

Craig

[firehop]

Thats a shame......I love my animals first the money will come later with care and a good environment, but thats all secondary for me. I guess as with everything there are always going to be those that seek profit at any cost. Thanks for the info.

[elevatethis]

That was my point, the "sellers" that I asked about it told me that was "normal" behavior. Obviously it wasn't and they had no qualms about selling these animals as normal. My only conclusion when someone sells an animal with obvious problems and calls it normal, is they only have eyes for the money.

Craig

Depends on what issues you are talking about...so far we covered spinning, which is most closely associated with a the trait appearing commonly in spiders. Its becoming more appearant that most, if not all, spiders do exhibit some displays of spinning to some degree (some more, some barely any at all). Now, most of these spiders grow to be happy healthy breeding adults - does that make it a 'problem' or a defect?

Its up to the breeder to be completely up front about the issues on the table; however, it is up to buyers to get educated PRIOR to the purchase, and make the decision for themselves.

Anyways...I think all of this proves one effect of ball pythons on the reptile community...more drama perhaps???

[West Coast Jungle]

Depends on what issues you are talking about...so far we covered spinning, which is most closely associated with a the trait appearing commonly in spiders. Its becoming more appearant that most, if not all, spiders do exhibit some displays of spinning to some degree (some more, some barely any at all). Now, most of these spiders grow to be happy healthy breeding adults - does that make it a 'problem' or a defect?

Its up to the breeder to be completely up front about the issues on the table; however, it is up to buyers to get educated PRIOR to the purchase, and make the decision for themselves.

Anyways...I think all of this proves one effect of ball pythons on the reptile community...more drama perhaps???

This is true. Head bobbing is commonly associated with Spiders. Some way more than others. I have never heard of it affecting the health of the animal but like all morphs you get what you pay for and where you get it. These are some of things you should ask before purchasing one.

[TheOtherLeadingBrand]

Any thoughts now, two years later?

[elevatethis]

I'm sticking with one proven effect:

More drama.