Importing....?

[RebelYell83]

Ok,i know i will get flamed for this,but it is what it is,,,i would love to have an open and respectable discussion on this if possible.

Basically,why do we still import normal ball pythons,among other common species,when they is MORE then enough normals being produced to supply pet chains and such already in captive programs?,i can understand importing new,or more rare morphs still,but why normals,and albinos,and pieds???

heres a small list of pros and cons i made up,just a quik one
if pet stores cant pay 7 dollars for that import,and have to pay 15-20 for a normal,thier prices will go up 10 dollars,which would really help some of the lower end morphs retain value,or even boost thier sales up a bit.

if we stop importing 50,000 normal babies a year(just a figure,could be way more or way less)then that would help with the wild population immensly,i think the numbers we import every year,are doing a number on afircan populations

healthier,often better looking,captive bred babies going to first time owners who dont know anything buying from a pet store,often times are hardier feeders,then a snake bagged the day it hatches and shipped across an ocean,and never really given proper care from day one,i think he would mean less dead snakes in the first 6 weeks of ownership,meaning happier owners more likely to add to thier collection,rather then giving up when thier baby snake died 6 weeks after they got it...as well as no new pet store owner goes a week without handling,so that CB baby would be more likely to still thrive and not be as stressed

cons:

pet stores and importers will take drastic needs to stop the thought of this

if anything passes any ban,it makes it a million times easier to pass the next one

as i said,i am not saying not to import any animals,just ones readily available at all times captive bred


could this be a response to 669,give them a cookie we wont really miss to shut the crying kids up???

ok,,alow the flaming and hanging of me to begin!!!!!!!!!!

[wolfy-hound]

No flaming here but you have some errors in your facts.

There is not enough captive bred normal babies to supply the demand. If there were, breeders could not sell their babies, and typically the big breeders sell out of their normal babies each year. The number imported is much higher than 50K.

Also, the smaller breeders that do have issues selling normal babies don't band together to have a mass amount to sell to larger stores. The larger stores want a large supply, and not to have to pick up a few snakes here and there. If someone went around gathering all the normals and sold them in a large group, a lot of normals would be sold to stores.. oh yes.. that's called a 'buncher' or in some people's terms a 'flipper'.

The pet store prices have rarely, if ever, had anything to do with the market price of ball pythons, especially the morph prices. The difference between $7 and $20 is not that much when they sell them for $80 and more. Many smaller stores DO buy locally produced normals for resell, mainly because they are usually fat eating cuties, without having to worry about parasites, feeding issues, or other health concerns.

According to the scientific studies done(and already quoted on this site in places), the ball python population is not only NOT decreasing, but is increasing in Africa, mainly because the ball python thrives in farmland type habitats. Since people are clearing wilderness for farmland, they are creating MORE habitat for balls, and increasing their prey of rodents.

Also, the 'captive hatching' way they harvest is a bit better way than collecting babies out of the wild.

You won't be able to import ONLY the cool snakes and not the normals. So no new morphs from the wild populations. And there are new morphs coming in every year. New bloodlines of established morphs could carry hidden genes as well, when they turn out to be not the surface gene.. but something that looks similar, but actually produces something quite different.

Other than the potential new morphs, I don't think that I would miss imported baby ball pythons. But I see many issues with banning the import, since it would easily spill over into many other areas. I would rather cut the NEED for imported normals, by trying to convince breeders and stores to do business, thus cutting the NEED for cheap imported normals. That way it's not outlawed, we still can import the snakes the hobby wants, but the wholesale normal baby numbers go down and we get the benefits of selling CB babies to the stores and thus to the consumer.

[Wh00h0069]

No flaming here. The reason that people are still import is money. Plain and simple. There is no need to import ball pythons when we have tons of captive bred balls in the United States. I for one do not deal with people who import!

Oh, and the number is more like 500,000 normals a year.

[RebelYell83]

No flaming here but you have some errors in your facts.

There is not enough captive bred normal babies to supply the demand. If there were, breeders could not sell their babies, and typically the big breeders sell out of their normal babies each year. The number imported is much higher than 50K.

Also, the smaller breeders that do have issues selling normal babies don't band together to have a mass amount to sell to larger stores. The larger stores want a large supply, and not to have to pick up a few snakes here and there. If someone went around gathering all the normals and sold them in a large group, a lot of normals would be sold to stores.. oh yes.. that's called a 'buncher' or in some people's terms a 'flipper'.

The pet store prices have rarely, if ever, had anything to do with the market price of ball pythons, especially the morph prices. The difference between $7 and $20 is not that much when they sell them for $80 and more. Many smaller stores DO buy locally produced normals for resell, mainly because they are usually fat eating cuties, without having to worry about parasites, feeding issues, or other health concerns.

According to the scientific studies done(and already quoted on this site in places), the ball python population is not only NOT decreasing, but is increasing in Africa, mainly because the ball python thrives in farmland type habitats. Since people are clearing wilderness for farmland, they are creating MORE habitat for balls, and increasing their prey of rodents.

Also, the 'captive hatching' way they harvest is a bit better way than collecting babies out of the wild.

You won't be able to import ONLY the cool snakes and not the normals. So no new morphs from the wild populations. And there are new morphs coming in every year. New bloodlines of established morphs could carry hidden genes as well, when they turn out to be not the surface gene.. but something that looks similar, but actually produces something quite different.

Other than the potential new morphs, I don't think that I would miss imported baby ball pythons. But I see many issues with banning the import, since it would easily spill over into many other areas. I would rather cut the NEED for imported normals, by trying to convince breeders and stores to do business, thus cutting the NEED for cheap imported normals. That way it's not outlawed, we still can import the snakes the hobby wants, but the wholesale normal baby numbers go down and we get the benefits of selling CB babies to the stores and thus to the consumer.

i do know of a couple breeders,who even release male hets as normals,to pet stores,,and yeah either a flipper,or straight up whole saler would need to be the middle man between us,the breeders,and the pet stores,and i got to thinking after i posted there would be no way this could work anyway,as all of a sudden these normals would be imported as possibly hets for the really cool morph

i have talked to a couple pet stores and theyve told me they will buy from me,if i sell for 10 or less,when i can easily get 30,and not really have to hold onto them for very long,his reason bein the overhead,he wouldnt go the extra 5 or 10 to meet me in middle ground

ehh,,just a rambling idea i had while half asleep this morning