Wiggles, the Children's Python

[Bogertophis]

Did you mean to say that your wife "does not mind" keeping them in your freezer?

I'm glad Wiggles took to the Reptilinks so easily, & especially that your local shop helped you make the deal so you didn't have to buy three years worth with only one snake to feed. Of course you also could have gotten more snakes. (I'm a bad influence!)

[Homebody]

Did you mean to say that your wife "does not mind" keeping them in your freezer?

That's right. Antagonizing my wife doesn't benefit me or Wiggles. We both dearly depend on her good graces.

[Homebody]

Wiggles's new favorite hiding spot is curiously warm.



It's this warm because his radiant heat panel is directly below it. What's more, this spot is under our Christmas tree skirt which presumably traps the rising heat.

When I started, I kept his basking spot between 85 - 90F. Then I bumped it up to 90 - 95F and noticed a marked increase in activity and appetite. Do I dare bump it up to 95-100F? Having kept a ball python for years, those temperature seem dangerous, but they are not outside the range given in some care guides for Antaresia pythons (most notably the one from Reptile magazine.)

[dakski]

Wiggles's new favorite hiding spot is curiously warm.



It's this warm because his radiant heat panel is directly below it. What's more, this spot is under our Christmas tree skirt which presumably traps the rising heat.

When I started, I kept his basking spot between 85 - 90F. Then I bumped it up to 90 - 95F and noticed a marked increase in activity and appetite. Do I dare bump it up to 95-100F? Having kept a ball python for years, those temperature seem dangerous, but they are not outside the range given in some care guides for Antaresia pythons (most notably the one from Reptile magazine.)

If Wiggles is digesting properly - no lumps in 2 days with an appropriate sized meal - and has an appetite and normal waste, I wouldn't push the issue on temps.

The purpose of temp control, in my mind, is to aid proper digestion and stimulate natural/"appropriate" behavior. If you are doing that, don't raise temps.

Let's say that Wiggles can handle 100F, but not 103F without damage, short or long-term. Why risk it? That's a small margin of error.

Shayna - BP - as you mentioned, likes no more than 90F and much more can be dangerous. I keep her hot side about 86-88F, with a spot here or there at 90-91F (literally a spot or two - I'll get to that in a second). This gives my redundant thermostats a few degrees of heat before shutting down the heat, but not to a dangerous level for her.

The other thing is what will raising the heat do to the cool side in the tank? My boas can handle 90F+ on the hot side, but even in a 6X2X1' tank, much more and the cool side is too hot for them. They like a 80F cool side +/-, but if I push hot side temps then the cool side gets to 82-84F, which is more like ambient temps for them and they get restless.

My corn snakes have hot spots of 84-86F and a cool side at 75-78F depending on time of year (I use no heating elements on their cool sides). If the temp on the hot side gets too warm AND their cool side gets above 78F or so, they are cruising. They are not happy. Too much heat equates to too much stimulation and they are uncomfortable. Can a corn snake handle 90F, sure, but they won't like for prolonged periods, and what does that do the temps in the rest of the tank. Keep in mind overstimulated animals can get hungrier quicker and if uncomfortable don't really know how to tell you. This could lead to biting or other behavior, but more importantly, it could be bothering your snake.

Now, the spots. I use RHP's and heat tape on all my tanks. It's impossible to keep every inch of the hot side the desired temp. I hit about 6 spots in a 1-2FTX2FT area in my tanks to test hot side temps. If 5 spots are 88-91F, and one spot is 94F, for my Boas, for example, that's okay. 90%+ of the area is ideal temp and 1 spot is a little high. I can also have a spot that's 86F and the average is 90F. Not a big deal. Nature isn't perfect and nether is keeping snakes in captivity, for a lot of reasons. Pros are we can control the environment, but the cons include being human and making mistakes or thinking we can improve things without consequence.

One final thought is Yafe, my CP. He can also handle higher temps. 93-95F. However, although there is a spot or two on his basking branch/PVC pipe below the RHP that gets that hot, I keep his hot side on the basking branch about 90-92F and it's 88-90F on the ground below. He will use those areas briefly when digesting, usually right after eating, but spend 90% of his digestion on the hot side where it's 86-88F at the front lift of the tank, just in front of the heat panel, but on the heat tape. He knows and I follow his lead. This doesn't mean I make it as hot as possible and see how he does, but I give him a range and he chooses what's best for him. The other thing, as mentioned, is the cool side. If I made his tank hotter on the hot side, he'd be too warm on the cool side as well. Gradients are good, but proper temps are important too. Both hot and cool side.

Bottom line, Wiggles is doing great and I'd stick with what's working.

EDIT: On the top of the tank, his belly might be warm/hot, but the ambient temp in the room is much lower (I presume). He could be compensating. However, in the tank, getting the ground to that temp could cause the hot side to be too hot in general, depending on how you are heating it (forgive me for not remembering your setup and also humoring other people who might read this for their benefit).

[Homebody]

Let's say that Wiggles can handle 100F, but not 103F without damage, short or long-term. Why risk it? That's a small margin of error.

You reasoning is unassailable. I am persuaded. I would still like to give him access to 100F degrees when I can do so safely. Currently, I use those cheap on/off thermostats, so I can only maintain temps within 5F degree range. I'll revisit the issue once I've upgraded my thermostats.

[Homebody]

I tried feeding a Reptilink without scenting it. No dice. He struck it repeatedly. but released it each time. Then, I scented it with a hopper. He took it without delay. I guess I'll have to keep scenting it for a while.

[Homebody]

Couple things. Target training is going well. I've been targeting Wiggles out of his enclosure onto his activity station and that's been going well. It's easy because he likes to come out of his enclosure and he likes to eat, so he's double motivated. Targeting him back into his enclosure is more of a challenge. He has to choose between food and freedom. He motives are mixed. Tonight hunger won out and I succeeded. I thought it would. You see Wiggles has been pretty hungry the past couple days and that brings me to my second thing.

I decided to feed Wiggles on a 9 day schedule. My Reptilink pack has 40 links so on a 9 day schedule they'll last the year. Reptilinks are also higher in calories, so I thought the change was appropriate. It still might be, but for the past couple days (days 6 and 7 on his schedule), Wiggles has been acting very hungry. Last night, he stuck at my daughter. Tried for her face. He missed, but scared her pretty good. She ended up laughing it off, but it got me to wondering why he struck, "Food or fear?" Tonight he took a swipe at my hand, and I decided it was food.

So, I'm not surprised tonight's targeting session went well. I knew he'd be super motivated. My 9 day feeding schedule has been called into question. Time will tell. Let's see how long this link lasts him.

[Bogertophis]

I'm glad that at least he didn't "connect" with anyone. Hungry snakes have been known to forget their manners- & since he missed, I assume your hand & her face were far enough away that he wasn't identifying either of you very well- most likely going for the "warm & wiggling" potential prey. Were you holding him when he tried for your hand? I assume not, or he'd have caught you, so I'm assuming he didn't have the advantage of your (or her) scent & touch, just played a couple bad hunches. Silly little snek! It's far more concerning when they have all the right cues (scent & touch) & bite anyway. Honest mistakes are easily forgivable.

[Homebody]

I assume your hand & her face were far enough away that he wasn't identifying either of you very well- most likely going for the "warm & wiggling" potential prey. Were you holding him when he tried for your hand? I assume not, or he'd have caught you, so I'm assuming he didn't have the advantage of your (or her) scent & touch, just played a couple bad hunches.

Correct on all counts. Wiggles was on his activity station both times. We were sitting next to it. I reached out to touch the station and he made a half-hearted strike. His strike at my daughter was so surprising because I had just been nose to nose with him. Then, he did a complete 180 and lunged at her. I'm surprised she was even on his radar.

[Bogertophis]

Correct on all counts. Wiggles was on his activity station both times. We were sitting next to it. I reached out to touch the station and he made a half-hearted strike. His strike at my daughter was so surprising because I had just been nose to nose with him. Then, he did a complete 180 and lunged at her. I'm surprised she was even on his radar.

I think this is part of why snakes get such a bad rap- we assume other animals visually identify everything the way we do, but I've seen it many times where a snake is a very short distance from us- maybe after we just set them down, but suddenly they don't recognize us & they lash out- mistaking us either for prey or a predator. It's the way their reptile brains work- I've always found that for me the best way not to get bit is by keeping a snake close to me. Once there is space between you, there's room for them to misinterpret & make mistakes. Scent & touch are to a snake what language is to us.