It's So Confusing

[grim reaper in NY]

I honestly don't understand how in the world y'all can keep up with what morphs are possible from what pairings. I am looking into breeding most likely next year and am trying to learn as much as I can about pairing various morphs with normals and so forth. I have thought about pairing a male Pastel with a female Spider, but am not really sure at this point.
How in the world do you guys and gals know what to pair with what to get some of the wild patterns and colors I see here?
I'm to the point where I am ready to just pair normals with normals and be done with it. At least then I know what I'd end up with...

[waltah!]

Hey a Spider and Pastel would be a great place to start if you have them. Everyone likes Bumblebees

[pavlovk1025]

Try here:

http://www.snake-zone.com/genetics/list

and here:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/

[PatoLoco]

Hi grim reaper,

I see a lot of people on the internet that have trouble figuring out different morphs and understanding genetics. Most people seem to memorize that, for example, an albino crossed with a normal Python regius will give you 100% hets for albinism while they don't really know exactly where these numbers come from. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that but genetics isn't about being able remember all these numbers

It's really not that difficult at all. If you want to be able to predict what any combination of morphs might give you all you have to do is learn the Punnett square. Google it, do some research, etc. and you'll notice that it's a really simple way of calculating morphs. All you have to do is know whether or not a certain morph is (co)dominant or recessive. If you're not sure what these terms mean, take a look around the internet and study a bit. The Punnet square can help you in understanding what exactly these things mean. If you know that, it's just a matter of seconds to calculate what offspring you might get when you breed 2 morphs.

Really, it can't get much easier than the Punnett square It might be a bit confusing at first but once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to calculate what offspring a certain (combination of) morph(s) can give you in less than a minute.

If you have trouble understanding the Punnett square, you can always ask some questions here on the forum or send me a PM. I'll be glad to help you out.

Seriously, i advice anyone that's interested in genetics to learn this very easy system. No more remembering numbers, no more having to ask everyone what morphs you'll get from breeding A to B, no more bla bla bla

Give it a try, it's worth it if you're really interested in genetics

Oh and, obviously, knowing what exactly a bumblebee or a killerclown is, is just a matter of experience. You can google these things quite easily. The names can be confusing sometimes but it's just a matter of time before you get the hang of it. When it comes to knowing all these names, there isn't really anything else you can do but read a lot about them.

Anyway, go check out the Punnett square and if you have questions, just ask!

Oh and hello all I'm new


edit: Oh and i'm sorry if i'm trying to hard to help here... I'm not sure how much you know about genetics so i just thought i'd give you some good hints. Maybe i'm overreacting a bit but if my post isn't very helpful to you, it might be to someone else out there

[Egapal]

I think most people are confused because they have no idea how genetics works. Here is a basic overview.

Each snake is either normal or expressing a certain trait (is a morph). Each snake carries 2 genes for each trait. Because there are 2 genes you can have 3 possible states.

Normal + Normal (lets call this NN from now on)
Normal + Morph (NM)
Morph + Morph (MM)

The problem is that you either see the trait or you don't, so how do you know which of the 3 above states your snake is. Well that depends. You have three kinds of traits, Dominant, Codominant, and recessive.

With Dominant if you see the trait you know your snake is either NM or MM if you don't see the trait your snake is NN.

With recessive if you see the trait your snake is MM if you don't its NM or NN.

Codominant breaks all the rules. Like your Pastel. If you don't see the trait the snake is NN, if you see the trait your snake is NM and if you see the superform its MM.

So if you get that then there are three other things you need to understand.

If an animal is sold as homozygous for a dominant trait then the seller is saying that they know the snake is MM because they know the parents genetics.

If a snake is sold as het for something. Then the seller is selling an animal that is NM but because its a recessive trait you can't see that the animal is anything but normal.

If a snake is sold as 66% Het for something, then the seller is saying that the bred two het animals together. They got a clutch and a bunch of normals. They are selling you a normal looking snake and there is a 66% chance that the animal is het for whatever they are selling it as het for. This is because if you breed a NM to a NM then 25% of your snakes are NN, 50% NM and 25% MM. unfortunately there is no way to tell the NN from the NM so 75% of the babies are a mystery. So if we take out the MM and do some math we get 33% are NN, and 66% are NM.

Assuming you are still with me you can figure the rest out with punnett squares. Look that up and you are all set.

In the case of your pastel and spider, you have to apply all the above for two different traits.

So you have one snake that has NM for pastel and NN for spider. And one with NN for pastel and NM for spider (assuming this but people can fight about it further in the thread).

That means that when you breed them together you get

25% Normals
25% Pastels
25% Spiders
25% Bumblebees (both Pastel and Spider)

Heres how you do the math, you figure out the chances for each trait seperatedly. So 50% of the babiess will be Pastel and 50% will be Spiders. To find the chances of Bumblebees you mulitply, so 1/2 times 1/2 is 1/4 or 25%. So 50% are pastels but 50% of those are also Spider.

[panthercz]

I think most people are confused because they have no idea how genetics works.

+1
Just learn some basic genetics and punnet squares. Google is a big time help in this. Don't know about everyone else but it was taught to me in grade school biology.

[Joe_Compel]

I honestly don't understand how in the world y'all can keep up with what morphs are possible from what pairings.

Tell me about it......and I have been doing this for a while.....it is tough to keep up.

Everybody else gave you good advice. The only thing I'll add is that once you think you have it all figured out, it may be turned upside down and inside out. Ball pythons have a way of keeping you humble.....and confused

[LadyOhh]

The basics are easy.. Its when you get to the 3+ combos that it gets complicated. And the ones you can't distinguish between the others???

Fugettaboutit....

[coolluigi007]

The basics are easy.. Its when you get to the 3+ combos that it gets complicated. And the ones you can't distinguish between the others???

Fugettaboutit....

Lol, exactlly. I got it down up to a double rec.... after that my brain starts to leak out of my ears... so I stopped. Lol

[wuffielover]

I agree with everyone else, Punnet squares are your best friend! Once you've got those down, all you need to know is whether a trait is dominant (Spider, Pinstripe, etc.), codominant (Pastel, Cinnamon, etc.) or recessive (Pied, Albino, etc.) to figure out what you'll get from any possible combinations.

Lol, exactlly. I got it down up to a double rec.... After that my brain starts to leak out of my ears... So I stopped. Lol

Once, I tried to figure out the most efficient way to produce a Caramel Glow Pied (my ultimate morph!!) starting out with one snake of each 'base' morph. I was cooking along until I got to a Punnet square that took up an ENTIRE SHEET of college-ruled notebook paper...then I gave up