Being harrassed by a reptile rescue

[wilomn]

I think I'd like to meet this pri, er, mick person.

He sounds like loads of fun. Smart too.

AHAhahahAHAHAHahaHAHhAHahahahAHAHAHahahAHahah

Seriously though, I would like to meet him.

[joepythons]

I wonder how many ants i need this week

[PhrynosomaTexas]

I was on good terms with this person who runs a reptile rescue in the southern part of the US, until the moment came that I unjoined his yahoo group.
Since then he has sent very nasty emails, I have been cordial and he had sent me a box to ship a native US lizard to him. I was going to, but could not guarantee that it get there in the time he wanted. WI to his state was at least 2 days via express. I didn't have 50 dollars to send it via UPS or Fed Ex, I got quotes.
He requested that I send the box to a person who needed it to ship some reptiles to him, the box needed to go to UT.
I did that, (I had a friend do it since I was going some where for the day). BUT I have the receipt, and can have his testimony. I did get a delivery confirmation and sent him an email with the tracking number.
He has now sent me a paypal invoice requesting payment for some insects he sent for the lizard to eat.
When I was waiting for the box, and for the temps in his state to go down, so the lizard would remain healthy.

All was fine until I unjoined from his group. Now he won't leave me alone.
I have taken steps to protect myself.. but this is ridiculous.
He states the cost of shipping the insects was 15.00 and would credit me 5 for shipping his container to UT. Thus owing him 9.
I had a post office to post office label and had to tape Express tape/labels all over the priority box he sent me. He was adamant that the box and its contents remain absolutely the same.
In order to keep it in that state. I shipped the box in a flat shipping rate box which cost 14.35. So technically I owe him 65 cents.
I do not have his mailing address as I took it off the box in order to ship it to him with the Post office to post office label.

So what should I do? I have contacted his email provider and he is a group owner at yahoo, due to his nasty emails he has violated their TOS.
I have been cordial and have kept all of my emails where he was nice, we spoke on the phone one night for 45 minutes talking about things.
Once I left the group he went nasty.

When part of the group he posted on there, some very nasty things were said about a lady in NY, he even called the NY fish and wild life on her saying she had taken 6 particular lizards and called her a poacher.
WHile the one I have is not in any way endangered, I really don't need this.

So what do you reccommend that I do?
OMG really he needs a life.

Carol

Well, I was directed to this post where you smear me and intentionally misrepresent the facts. The fact is that you are a thief. You took on a creature that you had neither the expertise or the money to handle. If you can't afford to ship it, then how could you afford to provide ants?

What you did was take a shipment of ants for free from me, then did not pay, agreed to receive a rescue container and then not send the animal. That means, you owe me for the free ants you received. I didn't forget. Since finding this I will now renew my paypal invoice request for the amount you owe. It's a matter of principle.

I have rescued more than 100 horned lizards in the last 4 years, and I don't want anyone changing the way I do it. They come out alive when my instructions are followed. You were asked to ship either USPS express (which would have run approx $20), or you could have shipped UPS with shipyourreptiles or a similar service. I receive these animals for rescue from as far away as upstate NY, Florida and WA state. Don't tell me you couldn't ship overnight from MI. That is BS. You should have been prepared for shipping costs beforehand and you should have done your research beforehand. Typical of an impulse buyer!

You got along with me at first, because you smoozed me for info and a free shipment of ants! You made me waste my time with you, when I had other horned lizards around the country needing rescue, and you were holding up my rescue setup with your BS promises! They are dedicated containers which I only have a few of, and at that time I had about 4 in transit.

You took the husbandry info from my website, made promises to ship the animal, took a free order of feeders in the meantime (which I footed the cost of because I was expecting the animal be surrendered to rescue). You got what you wanted and then took off, and that makes you a thief in my opinion.

You claimed that you spent $15 on shipping the rescue container back to me and would subtract this from what you owed. No idiot would excuse such an expense for a box you could have sent back parcel post or first class! You are a real piece of work.

I spoke to you for 45 minutes because I was trying to save an animal. I posted "nasty" things on my yahoo group because the person, like you, was nasty. She poached and was illegally holding protected wildlife species. Apparently that means nothing to someone of your caliber though. I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand. I called NYS wildlife authorities on a poacher of a protected species. Bite me if you don't like it!

[PhrynosomaTexas]

Hi,

**personal opinion only ahead**

Ask him for his address to send a personal cheque for $10 so you can prove it was cashed and when.

Send the cheque registered delivery so that he has to sign he recieved it. Put a letter inside saying that you consider this to be the end of any dealings and direct contact between you and that, if he persists in harrasing you via email, IM or forum posts you will report him to both the authorities and his ISP.

Once there is no financial transaction between the two of you it should be a lot easier to determine if any further contact counts as harrasment. Er I think.

Obviously I am no lawyer or anything but in your shoes I'd happily pay $20 or so to get the guy out of my life.

But keep everything in writing if possible in case you need it later.


dr del

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

Getting smart with the mods is a great way to become part of this wonderful community. I applaud you and request that you continue so that I may entertain my eyes a while longer.

Shipping with the USPS is ILLEGAL and talk of ILLEGAL practices is another great way to get your foot in the door. Shipping with SYR is no longer (until further notice) which leaves.... Oh yes.. FedEx as your only alternative for your rEsCuE

Have a wonderful and sanctified day!

[waltah!]

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

If I send you $9 will you go back to Yahoo?

[PhrynosomaTexas]

I originally contacted him in order to send him the reptile. I purchased it, and felt due to my location and its special dietary needs that it should go to a rescue, which he operates.
He also has a yahoo group, he invited me to. I found it rather uninformative.

And I would not trust someone who has zero experience with this animal to be judge of my experience...as someone who wrote a husbandry manual used by zoos in the US and Canada and who was an invited speaker at an international herpetology symposium about them. I have professionals contact me about the husbandry of these animals, so don't act as if you can judge what you know or don't know about a species I specialize in for a number of years.

And while I had the reptile all packaged up and ready to send. He insisted that the reptile be shipped in 24 hours guaranteed. The USPS could not do that. The species is allowed to be shipped via USPS.

I stipulated from the START that I only allow shipping by overnight. That is the only responsible practice. You act like that was a surprise to you being told it needed to be overnight. What a liar!

While waiting to ship it, due to weekend and temps in his area. He sent me a specific type of insect to feed it. (I don't want to go in to particulars at this point so I am trying to keep any names, and any specific references to types of animals out of the replies at this time.)

Of course you don't want to go into particulars. There is a reason you don't. That reason is that this is a wild collected horned lizard and the feeders I sent you (for it's use pending your shipping it to rescue)...cannot be found at petco or some other pet store! You being an impulsive buyer though, didn't even know this or research before you bought it. I can see why you don't want people on this forum to know that! You weren't trying to be civil to me by hiding facts. Just covering your own butt.

Since I could not get it to him with out the fee costing me quite a lot of money... I felt I could do a lot more research and with his help care for the lizard myself. [emphasis mine]

Apropos and famous foolish last words.

I have previous experience with them in my youth but not keeping them in an environment so alien as the midwest in winter.

Experience in your youth. Right, that's sufficient. I love how people say "I've been keeping them since I was 2 years old" as if that equates to some knowledge gaining real experience with a horned lizard. A species that zoos are afraid to keep!

I unjoined his group, and from that point on, he has gotten extremely nasty using 4 and 5 letter expletive words about me and to me.

Liar. About the only 4 letter word I used with you. LIAR. Oh and THIEF, which is 5 letters.

[wolfy-hound]

Actually, you cannot continue to contact someone if she has requested you to stop. At that point you have to resort to LEGAL means to retrieve your money. It's a law about stopping bill collectors from harrassing people.

If she holds the animal illegally, then report her to the appropriate authorities. Harrassing someone, no matter how many animals you have rescued, is no way to help the animals or educate people.

What kind of "special rescue" boxes are you using to ship in?

[dr del]

Hi,

I think it's still ok to ship lizards via SYR - the problem they have is only related to snakes. Or has this changed recently? - I honestly haven't been keeping abreast of it.

And, as long as they stay within the rules of the site, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.


dr del

[JLC]

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

Mind if I ask you a question? Isn't running a rescue about helping the animals? How does pursuing an old debt of less than $20 help any animals? Don't you, as a rescue organization, have more important things to spend your time and energy on?

I'm quite sure you both have your own sides of the story...and pretty certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle, even if both sides are convinced they are infallible. But it's beyond me how this issue is worth so much hatred and hostility. The world is full of animals who would LOVE to have that passion directed at meeting their needs instead.