What have i gotten myself into

[Kysenia]

I have looked thru this post briefly, bout 15 minutes. I am going to stick my neck out and give my two cents. This has nothing to do about large snakes, small snakes, keeping dogs , turtles or whatever.

This is a forum. A community that helps each other thru mistakes and learn about how to do things better. Beside the fact that this individual got himself into a tough situation. He approached the community admitting he made a mistake and within a few posts was being negatively attacked about his mistake. He came to the forum asking for advice and help. Telling him he should not have gotten this animal and why is totally appropriate, but to call him an idiot at the same time doesnt work. If you want to get your point across you can be candid with your advice and offer solutions and your concerns without being an @##.

I agree with all the issues the big snake people are presenting, but be productive with your concerns. For example when a patient comes to see me for back pain.....I dont say "hey you friggen idiot.......duh you have back pain because you are fat.......you did this to yourself you dumb@##. I present all information and solution to the problems.

Isnt that the goal of this community? You can be candid and state your opinion without being an @##.

For example......As others have said you probably bit off more then you can chew but keep in mind gloves dont solve the issue that you may not be ready. That snake can bite anywhere, and if you are alone your are gonna be in serious trouble.......

My opinion would be it best to start with a small juvenile to learn and grow with the animal....if something goes wrong with this 8 footer not only will it affect you with serious reprecussions it will also negatively affect the community which fights each day to hold on to our rights to have these animals. As you can see by the Florida example not months ago.

Will the individual take this to heart and make the change more likely with this approach ....or with the hey yeah wear gloves that will keep ya safe your dumb @##.

So in the end I take the side of the one looking for help and those that treat the problem and respond like they are 15 are the ones that should learn how to communicate effectively on the same level that this individual will learn the animal is more then he can handle and the risk reward for having that animal is not tipped in his favor.

[Skiploder]

I have looked thru this post briefly, bout 15 minutes. I am going to stick my neck out and give my two cents. This has nothing to do about large snakes, small snakes, keeping dogs , turtles or whatever.

Before I respond to your post, please clear you mind of any thoughts that this may be in some way an attack on you or a post filled with sarcasm.

Unfortunately, in all but the most talented writers, it's hard to convey the written word without some sort of reader intent or personal interpretation automatically assumed.

This is a forum. A community that helps each other thru mistakes and learn about how to do things better. Beside the fact that this individual got himself into a tough situation. He approached the community admitting he made a mistake and within a few posts was being negatively attacked about his mistake. He came to the forum asking for advice and help. Telling him he should not have gotten this animal and why is totally appropriate, but to call him an idiot at the same time doesnt work. If you want to get your point across you can be candid with your advice and offer solutions and your concerns without being an @##.

You are correct, this is a forum. That's where you and I stop agreeing on things.

There is a fundamental difference in asking for advice and going out and doing something that is not only potentially dangerous but could ultimately affect the Community's ability to own large or potentially dangerous reptiles.

Asking for advice is coming here and requesting that the community assist you in making an informed decision.

Coming here after you've willfully made an error - an error that could have an impact on all of us - and not expecting some heat, is well, ignorant and unreasonable. This pattern of faulty thinking is what got the OP to the tree of woe in the first place.

The OP made a series of bad decisions, I think you and I could even agree that going out and purchasing an animal that could potentially kill you without doing your due diligence borders not only on stupid, but idiotic.

If some members choose to point that out - well, that is a classic difference of approach. While I think it is entirely acceptable to be supportive and comforting when some one makes an honest, well-intentioned error, I also think it's acceptable to call someone an idiot when they make an idiotic and thoughtless decision.

I agree with all the issues the big snake people are presenting, but be productive with your concerns. For example when a patient comes to see me for back pain.....I dont say "hey you friggen idiot.......duh you have back pain because you are fat.......you did this to yourself you dumb@##. I present all information and solution to the problems.

I don't think this argument is relevant. You are in business. You insult your customers and you're out of business.

This is a forum - an exchange (somewhat) of free ideas not my business. The OP is not my customer. All I care about is that he doesn't make a mistake that could affect my future ability to acquire the reptile of my choice.

Isnt that the goal of this community? You can be candid and state your opinion without being an @##.

Who knows that the goal of the community is. For some it's to get attention, for others it's get information and for others it's social interaction.

Everyone has a different approach. Let's not kid ourselves - some people will respond to a post like the OP's with support and understanding - others will point out that he made stupid mistake - one that could have been avoided with a modicum of research and thought.

Your interpretation of an a$$ is going to be different from mine. Considering the nature of what he did (buying an 8' afrock cross with no giant experience), I'd say the majority of posts here were appropriate.

Will the individual take this to heart and make the change more likely with this approach ....or with the hey yeah wear gloves that will keep ya safe your dumb @##.

Have you ever thought that by coddling someone who makes a potentially injurous mistake that you are only encouraging that person to do it again?

Maybe, just maybe, getting verbally thrown around provides a bitter enough pill that the OP remembers that next time he is about to make a potentially dangerous decision without giving it the proper amount of diligence.

So in the end I take the side of the one looking for help and those that treat the problem and respond like they are 15 are the ones that should learn how to communicate effectively on the same level that this individual will learn the animal is more then he can handle and the risk reward for having that animal is not tipped in his favor.

Here's the fundamental point in which we differ - I re-read the thread last night and saw it begin to go down hill when the OP took offense at being jabbed at. Then a couple of people who had bones to pick with other forum members jumped in and began taking their shots.

If you look at the "thanks" given to the posts that apparently inflamed this thread, it appears that a large number of forum members approved of the "tough" way in which the OP was dealt with.

Sometimes the best way to help someone is to point out, in the bluntest terms possible, that the source of their troubles is their own lack of common sense.

[spitfireashlea]

All I care about is that he doesn't make a mistake that could affect my future ability to acquire the reptile of my choice.

You better hope you don't mess up too at some period of time.

[Skiploder]

You better hope you don't mess up too at some period of time.

Hope?

I'm not going to "hope" anything. I'm fully in charge of my animals and my actions.

[wilomn]

For example when a patient comes to see me for back pain.....I dont say "hey you friggen idiot.......duh you have back pain because you are fat.......you did this to yourself you dumb@##.

So, you either withold valuable, possibly lifespan and quality of life, information from your customers?

You don't tell them that the cause of their problem is because they're fat because....you don't want to hurt their feelings? You let them continue in a manner that you, the doctor, I'm assuming, know is detrimental to them and therefore quite possibly to their family and those around them?

Heh.

I prefer the truth.

[adam_degel]

Its almost as if your telling yourself.. 'i'm done with the dog, i wanna tame a lion' .. i dont have to much big snake experience.. but i find that snake owners kind of put there snakes in this 'pet' category with their dog, cat, fish, etc and dont realize that they own one of the top predators in the animal world? I love and am fascinated with snakes.. but i believe that only large breeders with reptile stores/zoo's should only be able to 'display' these animals in a large artificial atmosphere.. to lock up a 8'+ reptile in a box in my mind is pure animal cruelty.. IMO.. sorry if i offended any of you great snake keepers! but rock/burmese/retic should be able to roam free in their homelands... and isn't this the main reason why great snake keepers in florida have to give up all their snakes? cause people get confused with a burmese being a pet and then letting it go once it gets to big cause there scared and cant handle it?

[Denial]

Its almost as if your telling yourself.. 'i'm done with the dog, i wanna tame a lion' .. i dont have to much big snake experience.. but i find that snake owners kind of put there snakes in this 'pet' category with their dog, cat, fish, etc and dont realize that they own one of the top predators in the animal world? I love and am fascinated with snakes.. but i believe that only large breeders with reptile stores/zoo's should only be able to 'display' these animals in a large artificial atmosphere.. to lock up a 8'+ reptile in a box in my mind is pure animal cruelty.. IMO.. sorry if i offended any of you great snake keepers! but rock/burmese/retic should be able to roam free in their homelands... and isn't this the main reason why great snake keepers in florida have to give up all their snakes? cause people get confused with a burmese being a pet and then letting it go once it gets to big cause there scared and cant handle it?

I wouldnt classify large constrictors as a top predator and I certainly would not compare it to a lion. If I was stranded in a jungle I would much rather run into a large constrictor then ANY big cat.

[wilomn]

Its almost as if your telling yourself.. 'i'm done with the dog, i wanna tame a lion' .. i dont have to much big snake experience.. but i find that snake owners kind of put there snakes in this 'pet' category with their dog, cat, fish, etc and dont realize that they own one of the top predators in the animal world? I love and am fascinated with snakes.. but i believe that only large breeders with reptile stores/zoo's should only be able to 'display' these animals in a large artificial atmosphere.. to lock up a 8'+ reptile in a box in my mind is pure animal cruelty.. IMO.. sorry if i offended any of you great snake keepers! but rock/burmese/retic should be able to roam free in their homelands... and isn't this the main reason why great snake keepers in florida have to give up all their snakes? cause people get confused with a burmese being a pet and then letting it go once it gets to big cause there scared and cant handle it?

Seriously? Really?

Yes. It is all pet owners who have turned their snakes loose in Florida that have caused all the hassles we experience now.

And you're correct, of course, about big snakes needing to be free. After all, a snake that size that sits and waits patiently by a waterhole or by the side of a trail, possibly for weeks while it waits for prey to come close enough to be food, that does not move from that spot, NEEDS to be free to roam.

Really? Seriously?

And why is it ok to keep ball pythons in tubs, some of them barely big enough for the snake to be able to turn about in, or any other snake kept in a small enclosure, but not the giants? Prejudiced are we? Biased a tad?

Have you ever kept a big snake? Got any personal experience with them? Real experience, not seeing one somewhere sometimes, but actual day to day hands on experience?

I ask only to determine where your ....ignorance/error/lack of facts, originated. Maybe you're a well meaning but under or un or maybe even mis-informed keeper. Maybe not. But knowing would make future answers easier to frame in a manner most conducive to your successful assimilation.

[stratus_020202]

I thought it was the hurricane taking out the pet stores, and that's where the wild burms and retics came from?

Well, most of them anyway.

I don't think the poster will do this though, and if he wants to learn how to care for giants, let him. We are not his parents. We all had to start somewhere, and we are here for him when he needs help.

[Kysenia]

skip....re-read my post....I am in no way saying this person is right....if you read it again you will see what I am trying to convey is how to communicate and get a point across....

Making poor decisions and asking for help definately opens him up to being attacked.....I am trying to point out a better way that may actually keep someone from getting defensive and keep their ears open to hear all aspects of how this choice may affect him and others.

Make sense? I disagree with your dissection of my words......they are an attempt to make the point of how to get your point across and educate others. That is what the example of working with a patient is trying to convey. Will the patient listen if I approach the way you say is ok? Patient...member of a forum.....humans....tend to respond poorly to verbal attacks, sarcasm used incorrectly, and aggressive individuals.