I Attended the HR2811 Hearing on July 29th

[rabernet]

Adam, please, read my first post... I want them banned in Florida (and maybe Georgia)... I completely agree with it being dumb in any other states apart from maybe Louisiana and TX, although they get freezing temperatures.

Georgia gets freezing temperatures as well. I live here, trust me - it gets damned cold here in the winter - we even get snow here - imagine that!

[dkwalton]

I think Florida is on the right track with micro chipping, secure enclosures, and licensing ... all of which prevent impulse buying that could result in irresponsible releases and allow responsible owners to continue doing what they've always done.

I think that the other side to that coin is serious scientific surveys of the burmese pythons in the Everglades (I've heard numbers everywhere from 10,000 - 250,000 ... they have to be just guessing at this point) ... trap programs ... and grant programs for open admission, licensed, giant snake rescues.

In my opinion, each state should be able to determine what is best for it's own citizens and the ecosystems within that particular state.

-adam

Good points...

[rabernet]

Where is the scientific evidence that points to the Florida Burmese populations causing a net ecological and/or economic loss? Point me to that peer-reviewed scientific paper please.

He can't - but isn't it ironic that he requires scientific proof to give up HIS animals?

[Skiploder]

The government might not be pusing for it but organzations like PETA and HSUS are. Tey see it as a sort of animal slavery and people shouldn't be allowed to keep pets. If they just started with cats and dogs people would think there nuts. Wy do you think they supported HR669? They thought they'd start on the opposite side of the spectrum. They didn't realize that so many people would be against it tought so now tey are trying to start wit animals that are big and scarey, "monsterous alligator eating pytons". Then tey are going to push bills to ban other "dangerous animals". From there they are going to pus there way down te spectrum until tey reach cats and dogs and nobody and legally own any pet! Of course I seriously doubt tey would ever get that far but they will try. PETA and the HSUS are not what you think they are.

How do you know what I think they are?

[wolfy-hound]

I got freezing temps several times this year here in Florida too, but you want it illegil in the whole state. So since YOUR animals could live in parts of texas, you should immediately relocate them.

It's hypocritical to declare that Florida/Georgia should be penelized, when your own state gets similar temps.

And again, why is it ok to punish all the law-abiding owners that haven't ever had any issues?

[Jyson]

Georgia gets freezing temperatures as well. I live here, trust me - it gets damned cold here in the winter - we even get snow here - imagine that!

Same here for North Central Fl., past 3-4 years during winter temps got as low as 20 F, once it even dropped to 18!

[DutchHerp]

The paper that was linked written by the Barkers is biased and non-scientific.

I don't have a paper to link, I'm sorry.

But whatever, I have my opinion and you have yours.

[sweety314]

First off, Colin: Thx for going out of your way to attend the hearing meeting and letting the rest of us know how things went.

Second, Thx to Adam for continuing re: HR669.

Now.....I live in podunk Oregon....Waaay the He** away from Florida. Am I pushing to kill HR 669 and HR2811 stuff? HE** yeah!!!!!! Why? B/c once it's banned in FL, then it (eventually) works it's way to HERE, and right now, should HR669 pass, 28 of my 35 will become illegal. And 14 of those are RESCUES/ REHOMED. It's claimed they'll be grandfathered in, but once one dies, I won't be allowed to replace it. Btwn the militant animal rights groups (NOT animal WELFARE groups) and Big Brother don't believe everything you're told.

I've purchased animals with the intent to breed for the recessives that I can't afford to buy. I plan to sell the hets for pets. This all becomes a waste of time & money should these resolutions become law. So much for my trying to become not-so-pinched financially (after being laid-off by a Fortune 500 company 10 months ago).

I specifically started doing rescue since there are ppl who didn't know or didn't care enough to take PROPER care of the animals. 4 balls from one woman, just b/c she wanted more "interaction, like my beardies who come when I call". WTF?!? Okay, so now I have 3.1 balls who were (additonally) in a 72* room with no hotspots and stopped eating. I ended up with 1.1 yellow annies, (which are actually 0.2) B/C THEY BITE! Well, duuuuuuuuuuuuh! He had them 2-3 months, they weren't eating (again too cold in the backyard with only one heat lamp.) Obviously the pillock didn't know the care and husbandry. At least w/my rehoming them, it didn't take them all winter to get RIs and eventually die. Even should it NOT snow in the W. Valley (and it does), it gets wicked cold and is always wet w/the rain and wind during the winter. It would have been only a matter of time before these two annies perished.

Do U actually think that should HR669 and HR2811 were to pass, it would keep doofus ppl like this from owning a giant????? Or any snake at all????NOPE.....they'll just get them from someone who isn't being "policed" or honest. Ever hear of Prohibition and Speakeasies????? Or maybe banned weapons that ppl can buy on the black market? That will happen with the giants too. Some ppl are actually of the mentality that banned only means that they HAVE TO HAVE IT, that much more.

Yes, due to idiots and God's hurricanes, there is a problem in the Glades. (At least MAN has finally come to realize that he has to stop draining the Glades for land and is trying to "restore" and correct past mistakes.) And maybe for certain areas of FL and TX (NC maybe?) microchipping and licensing is necessary to help mitigate these issues. But DON'T punish ME!! b/c of this......and a FEDERAL law (i.e. HR669 or HR2811 and other such ilk/garbage) is doing exactly that.

Another thought in this rant....so I microchip my two annies. I sell them, change and leave the record updates to the buyer. He doesn't but sells them and they get flipped and turned loose.....< I > as last recorded owner gets punished??? I don't think so, but I also wouldn't be able to fight the fines or jail time financially. So will the actual criminals get punished? No, they'll come for me. My only saving grace will be if I keep forever the record/proof that I sold to Joe Shmoe and maybe HE was the one that turned them loose/let them escape. And U and I as tax payers will be paying for aaaaall this additional bureaucratic BS and paper-pushing.

[DutchHerp]

I actually want to reword what I said earlier.

In an ideal world, people would never have taken animals from the wild to put in cages, to keep as pets, etc. Hence, I said that ideally all animals that could cause problems would be banned.

I'm not saying that's a solution. Banning pythons is definitely not the ideal solution, but if it's been a ban or no ban, I choose ban.

I like the microchipping idea, but then again, an escaped python could already cause problems before capture.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a ban on pythons, even though it seems like I do.

Between the two choices right now though, I choose ban.

Later, Matt

[qiksilver]

I think if prices were raised, some of this would be avoided. Raise the prices of large pythons enough that they're not 'expendable' this way every jerk who thinks they're tough won't buy one, and the people actually interested will put down the money. Make it a large python tax or something.

Things like this happen when people think that just because it's cheap it's expendable, and they can do as they please with it.

There's no way to make your average schmoe more responsible, so it's a bit of a catch 22. I see both sides of this argument making sense, but come on people, legislation is a slippery slope, and I don't think vilifying the animals is the way to go. If only there was a way to make keepers more responsible... but there isn't. And so around we go until everyone is arguing with everyone.