Sellers, take care Kristy1277

[KLHReptiles]

The whole point of this thread is ridiculous. Basically it comes to to the fact that Jessica KNEW that the 2 snakes were bred to her fire, she TOLD me that there was a slim possibility that they might be gravid. When one of the snake did end up having a clutch, all of a sudden she wished she never sold me the snakes and basically demanded to have the egg back. It is clearly a case of seller's remorse. Just for everyone's reading pleasure, I will cut/paste all emails between us. In the emails, you can clearly see that she KNEW that the 2 snakes locked with her fire....also she gets progressively meaner and meaner to me. Start from the bottom up....



--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:54 PM

Why? So I can just continue to be upset about this? I hope you get a great snake - hell, i hope it's a female fire and... i dunno, the fire and hope both were het for ghost and it's a fire ghost - whatever. I don't care. All I know is I should never have done business with you.

I gave you money off the snakes (you made a big deal about 5 bucks when you were getting my nicest girls for virtually nothing), off the herpstat, you got free waterbottles, and i gave you discounts on the rat cages AND the rats. I love how you don't even remember all the times i just stomached it - but then again, why should you? It wasn't you who has found this whole thing excruciatingly painful.

Enjoy your egg. Sincerely, I hope you get something awesome out of it. We're done.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

I never said it was hard or expensive to raise hatchlings....just saying its not a "sweet deal" as you put it. The only discounts you gave me was $10 less than what you were asking for the Herpstat. I paid for a possibly gravid snake, and thats what I got....it is not my fault that you have seller's remorse about this. Now if you want, I can keep you updated on the egg's status....if not, that is fine too.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:23 PM


Don't give me that nonsense about how hard it is to raise hatchlings. You have an out if you wanted it, there's something in this for you, or you wouldn't be hanging on to it so hard, even though I told you it is so important to me.

I helped you. I gave you really good deals. I let you have every discount you asked for. It's exceedingly upsetting that you can't even do me this one, stupid kindness with an egg you think is so messed up, and sit there telling me how expensive it is to raise it.

I shouldn't have sold them to you, you're right. I felt pressured by my situation, but I should have held on. I was crying when you left with them. Now you've got my girls, and their egg(s). I hope you feel good about yourself.

This is really making me angry and sad. If you really have nothing else to say except "you shouldn't have done it that way" (seriously, how is that even remotely helpful?) then we have nothing else to talk about.

Good day.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

You still havent really answered the question. Even if it was a remote possibility that they were gravid, you shouldve kept them. I dont feel like I got a sweet deal or am taking advantage. I bought them knowing that one might be gravid....and one ended up being gravid after all. I got what I paid for. I hardly feel that one possible viable egg is a sweet deal considering the effort/$$ it takes to hatch eggs and raise a hatchling. I should never have said anything about a clutch. This egg is in really bad shape, I can send you a pic if you want. I doubt it will survive after all of this anyways. Its really squished, flat and has deep creases.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:06 PM


Like i said, i didn't think that she was. I told you it was a remote possibility, but highly unlikely. I told you how much it would mean to me, but that doesn't matter to you. All that matters is that you might have gotten a really sweet deal and that makes me feel very taken-advantage-of. You could help me, but you choose not to. Make your choice as you want. The ball is in your court to do what you feel is right, but I don't think it's cool, and I will not deal with you anymore, or allow you to benefit from my future sales in any way.



On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

She doesnt want to get involved in this situation, but she agrees to the fact that you sold the snakes knowing they might be gravid and didnt say anything about wanting eggs/babies if they were gravid. I am also 100% sure that if Danielle wouldve bought Hope, she would've made the same decision. I just dont understand WHY you would sell them if you wanted to have babies from the fire. It just doesnt make sense to me. I do not think I am being selfish...actually I think you are being really unfair since this was your decision in the first place to sell Lady and Hope. Again, I am sorry...and I feel that I am making the right decision.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 1:15 PM


To ask her what she thought, if she thought I or you were being irrational (since she knows you). I know I could take care of the egg just fine, and that it would be OK. Even if it hatches and as a viable snake, you wouldn't give it to me, would you? I can't see this as anything but you being selfish, and I think it's really lame after all the breaks I gave you.

I don't have a problem with Danielle, I actually think she's pretty awesome, but I don't want to do anything else that might benefit you, and since you guys are together in some deals, that probably precludes me dealing with her.



On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am really sorry that you feel that way. You decided to sell the snakes knowing that they possibly mightve been gravid. Also you are not in a condition to have anymore snakes, currently your snakes are residing 2+ per bin. As I had said, the egg is in really bad shape, and it would be very irresponsible to move the egg from the incubator to give it a chance at life. Please do not take out your anger at my "associates" like Danielle, whom I know will be wanting to buy your rack when its available. She has nothing to do with this situation...she told me you sent her our conversation.


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:43 AM


I am sorry I ever sold anything to you. You have no heart of sense of empathy. Thanks for nothing.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes I asked for the water bottles because I bought like 20 cages off of you, and I only got like 4 bottles the first time around. I gave you full asking price for the 2 racks, and only asked if you;d take $50 (versus $60) for the Herpstat because thats all I had left. I also paid the full asking price on the 2 snakes. I am sorry, but I dont want to give up the egg, nor move it from the incubator. You knew that there was a possibility that either of the 2 snakes mightve been gravid from the fire but you still sold them. You shouldve kept them to see if they were going to lay or not. I am sorry....

-Kris

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:21 AM


It is inaccurate to say you gave me asking price. You talked me down on several items, and when I found spare waterbottles laying around, you asked if you could have them, and I gave them to you.

I know who hope locked with, and I am asking you again to give me the egg. I can transport it safely myself, and it will be fine. I am willing to offer you something in trade, but you got so many things from me at extremely fair prices, I would hope that you wouldn't ask much. It is a matter of sentimental value that I have this egg hatch, even if it's just a normal. Please.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi, I said that the remaining egg doesnt look to be in good shape and has very few veins and is squished. If I had any hope of it surviving full term at all, I dont want to move it from the incubator. And just for the record, everything I bought from you I gave you your asking price...and since I bought all your leftover cages I assumed the water bottles came with the cages. I asked Danielle and she said that she remembered you had told me the fire locked with Lady, not Hope. Maybe Hope locked with a different male?


--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:39 AM


I know you probably won't, but it would mean really a lot to me if you would give me the good egg. I was crushed when I lost my fire, and i would like to have the egg.

I was really nice and gave you lots of free water bottles and discounts. I know this is asking a lot, but it really would mean a lot for me to have it.

your call.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes I will keep you updated. I had to scramble to put together a makeshift incubator since my big one isnt finished yet. I swear you only told that Lady locked with the fire....maybe I just heard you wrong. The clutch was 4 eggs and 1 slug, when I found them 2 were definitely bad, 1 iffy and 1 had some veins (but I saw the embryo moving). I am incubating the iffy egg and the egg with veins....we'll see. Thanks.
-Kris

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, S.A. <......@gmail.com> wrote:


From: S.A. <......@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: question about Hope
To: "Kris H." <ginip21@yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:22 AM


I am sure I mentioned Hope's situation.

It would be a fire clutch. She probably layed prematurely due to the stress of moving. I didn't think she was, but I told you it was a remote possibility. I'm sorry for the surprise.

Please tell me how the one egg does, and what it gives you if it survives. I lost the fire that bred her, but he was an especially nice-looking guy.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:08 AM,
Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hope laid a clutch of eggs recently. I actually just found them last night when I lifted out her hide to try feeding her again (she hadnt been eating). I am not actually sure when they were laid, I am thinking about a week ago. Because I didnt even know she was gravid I wasnt looking for eggs, so unfortunately only 1 was still good but doesnt look that nice...so who knows if it will survive. Anyways, I am writing because you never told me that Hope was paired with anybody, you only mentioned Lady as a possibility. Who was Hope locked up with in case the one egg makes it? Thanks...
-Kris

[wilomn]

Yesterday I saw a nice animal the owner was having to sell at what I consider a bargan basement price because they were no longer able to keep the animal. I considered buying it, but it was bought before I made my mind up. I guess this makes me a money grubbing, pennypinching, heart of coal? Or just smart? I wonder???

You ASS ume much, read poorly and comprehend, if possible, even worse than that.

However, I do find it interesting that you support someone knowing, I ASS ume, little more than I do yet you feel comfortable doing to me exactly what you have accused me of doing to you. I haven't, but if the shoe fits, well, it's yours to wear. Doubtless you'll be comfortable in it, being so clever and crafty and just all around smart; too smart to put on something that didn't fit just because you wanted to make a point to someone who truly couldn't care less what you thought.

LOL

I wonder if the blisters I see in your future will be painful....

[wilomn]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:08 AM,
Kris H. <ginip21@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hope laid a clutch of eggs recently. I actually just found them last night when I lifted out her hide to try feeding her again (she hadnt been eating). I am not actually sure when they were laid, I am thinking about a week ago. Because I didnt even know she was gravid I wasnt looking for eggs, so unfortunately only 1 was still good but doesnt look that nice...so who knows if it will survive. Anyways, I am writing because you never told me that Hope was paired with anybody, you only mentioned Lady as a possibility. Who was Hope locked up with in case the one egg makes it? Thanks...
-Kris

I think you're lying.

You got the snake and never looked at it for a week?

You tried to feed it, yet you never saw it?

It laid eggs, possibly a week before you noticed them yet you tried, more than once, to feed the snake?

Yup, sounds like someone is having trouble keeping her stories straight.

[tonkatoyman]

You ASS ume much, read poorly and comprehend, if possible, even worse than that.

However, I do find it interesting that you support someone knowing, I ASS ume, little more than I do yet you feel comfortable doing to me exactly what you have accused me of doing to you. I haven't, but if the shoe fits, well, it's yours to wear. Doubtless you'll be comfortable in it, being so clever and crafty and just all around smart; too smart to put on something that didn't fit just because you wanted to make a point to someone who truly couldn't care less what you thought.

LOL

I wonder if the blisters I see in your future will be painful....

The calluses I wear from being well so ass urtive in my oppinions in the past will shield me from any blisters in the future. LOL

[KLHReptiles]

I think you're lying.

You got the snake and never looked at it for a week?

You tried to feed it, yet you never saw it?

It laid eggs, possibly a week before you noticed them yet you tried, more than once, to feed the snake?

Yup, sounds like someone is having trouble keeping her stories straight.

Believe what you want. If Jessica posts her emails, they will be the same emails. I did not edit anything. The eggs were in the hide, I didn't lift out the hide during that week. She was not coiled around the eggs, half of her was in the hide, front half out. Then when I tried to feed again, I decided to take out the hide hoping she would eat without her hide in the tub. When I took out the hide, the eggs were there. I got the snakes June 13th, and did not think either snake was gravid so I was not looking for eggs. This was my 3rd time trying to feed Hope, now at least I know why she wasnt eating.

[BAD Morphs]

Well I guess I'll play the devil's advocate here but Morphie I don't see where you got taken advantage of at all.

If you decide as a seller to discount anything or give it away outright free, whether that is a living creature or a supply item, why is it the buyer's fault you made this decision? You have every right to say no to anything a buyer asks. You said yes, yet you come back later and want to blame another for your decisions?

As far as the gravid female, unless I'm mistaken you sold her not knowing if she was gravid or not. You did, however, pair this snake so the chance she was gravid was there. You made the decision not to wait out the time to find out if in fact a clutch sired by your now deceased fire was brewing.

As much as I feel bad for you regarding your fire, from a fair business standpoint I don't think you have a leg to stand on. If you had agreed to a sale wherein any resultant offspring where yours or split 50/50 but you didn't - you sold a possibly gravid female and now want to complain because your buyer didn't hand over a "bonus" type of offspring. Business is business Morphie and emotions like empathy do not have a place there nor can be demanded from someone.

I don't think you should be referring to someone else's "talksdowns" after you are publically calling another person out with some pretty negative terms yourself.

I agree with this statement of facts and was told just right!!!!

[Morphie]

The emails are accurate.

When they asked if they could come over, my house was trashed because we are moving (did i mention that? that's why the snakes are being sold). I have terrible anxiety about people being in my [messy] house, so I asked if we could deal on the porch. I brought down everything they asked to see, and gave them every piece of information I had about the snakes as accurately as I could manage.

While on the porch, Kris would make comments in passing designed to get me to give in to what she wanted: the ability to come upstairs and browse my equipment at her whim. Things like "this would be easier if we could just come up..." etc. On the final visit, I got tired of all of that crap and invited them up.

10 of the girls i was selling did not belong to me - they belong to another individual, and I was breeding them with my males. When I found out we were moving, I contacted the partner and asked him what to do with his girls and racks. He asked me to sell them, so I did.

I did/do have a couple of pretty thin girls (one is mine, one was his). I was reluctant to even offer the thin ones because I wasn't sure what experience level Kris and her friends are at. The girls have not been eating, and I'm rather worried about them, but I know how to deal and I am dealing (i know they *do* eat - they have in the past, they just have to get going again somehow). I warned them about the situation, told them how long it had been since the last meal, and asked them if they were ready to try to get non-eater adults started. They said yes, and I believed them, so they were purchased and later returned when the girl who bought them couldn't handle it (I am currently handling it, but the situation is rough considering the move. Obviously the snakes themselves are the main concern, and they won't be sold to any n00bs before they're fat again).

Kris bought a rack that holds 15 - 18 tubs, which housed most of the collection. I have a vision rack that holds 10 tubs, and I recently sold an RBI rack that has 8 tubs. Last time I sold snakes in quantity was before the recession, so I failed to consider that it might take some time to move so many girls. That said, I sold Kris her rack a bit prematurely, and thus I did end up housing some snakes together (stressed, thin ones always get their own tubs no matter what). I made a stack of tubs in the corner and a temp-rack using reflectix and ultratherm heatpads and kept my head above water that way until I sold a few more girls. The girls that were wet when I brought them down were in humid tubs, and so I gave several of them a quick rinse with lukewarm water before hauling a bunch of them downstairs.

Kris, If my snakes are so horrible, and in such deplorable conditions -- If you're "rescuing" my horribly neglected snakes, why did the two who needed your help most come back while you guys kept all the big fat ones? I'm sure keeping the fire's egg is all about saving that poor widdle hatchling from the big, bad me who had to stretch to make ends meet for a couple weeks. Yeah, there's nothing in it for you at all. It's purely the charity of your gracious heart that's making you keep it.

Like I said, considering the pain this has caused me, I hope it's *really* worth it for you. Whatever you need to make it worth it, I hope you get it.

The way you characterized your interactions with your friend, and the way you characterize your wheedling with me are not accurate. You were pouting all over the house about that stupid waterbottle, and your friend kept saying things to the effect of "you always do this crap, Kris".

I am not saying my side is as god saw it, but it is really distressing how many things you asked for and got, which now you simply don't remember. No wonder you think you're justified in keeping that egg.

Anyway thanks for the slander. Awesome.

[max123]

I couldn't help it if i wanted. I might as well just go get my SUCKER tattoo right now.

What do you think? Forehead so they can read it when they meet me? Chest so they can read it when I give them my shirt? Or back, so they can read it when they stab me?

(i know that's a little extreme - i feel incredibly crappy and cynical right now. Sorry.)

Boohoo. She bought them fair and square as poss gravid one lays and you want the egg. You shouldn't have sold them if you wanted the eggs. No one did anything wrong, except you making this thread.

[Morphie]

Kris, reading back through the emails, I realize how I came off. I didn't really have the right to be that way with you, and for that I'm sorry.

I still feel hurt and mistreated; I still want nothing to do with you business-wise, but I'm sorry that my emotions got in the way of my diplomacy when I was asking for your help. I should be better about that, regardless of what I think is the way something -should- be.

[Morphie]

Boohoo. She bought them fair and square as poss gravid one lays and you want the egg. You shouldn't have sold them if you wanted the eggs. No one did anything wrong, except you making this thread.

A little tip: If you think something you have to say is worthwhile, don't couple it to an insult. No one is ever, ever, ever going to take you seriously if you start off by patronizing them or trying to belittle them. You might as well save your breath.

Try writing something 100% constructive, just as an exercise.