Feeders have value too. (or would I ask/say that about my snake)

[Luvmycreatures]

I don't post often but I read here daily. It's one of the herp boards with the best feeder section, lot's of really knowledgeable folks.
Now admittedly, I come from a different view point than most as I have no snakes (just a few frogs/toads). I breed feeder rodents because I think snakes have a right to eat their natural prey and I feel like rodents have a right to live a good life while they're here. I run an impractical rodentry because in my opinion it's best for the rodents that way. As a vet tech with a decade's worth of experience I know good quality food is the building block of ANY animal (and that includes stress free prey- stress does horrible things to health and body) As I've been reading I've had to laugh at some of the posts and I wonder what most readers would do if the same questions were asked and statements made about snakes (or other herps). Now please read this all with a grain of salt, tongue in cheek. Really I only mention it because I think it's funny how we read with a bias (a snake brain vs a rodent brain).
For example no big deal if someone asks if a rat can live with an ASF, most folks said "No" and moved on. If that question had been on herp mixing I guarantee the thread would have involved more severe tongue lashings, discussion of different origins etc etc etc
Secrets to raising ASFs as cheaply as possible...... well if someone had come here talking about ways to "keep a snake alive" vs. giving the snake the best environment, food etc as possible, I think another hot debate would have ensued. And certainly if someone mentioned punching a snake in the head for striking, well I don't think anyone would dare even post such a thing.
It's funny how the same theories apply to both but our personal interest and bias taints the knowledge that we think we have or lack. I just thought it was an interesting thing to note..... back to your regularly scheduled programming

[tonkatoyman]

Very well said. We always need to remember that while the animals are in our care we need to care for them. Even if they are only here to feed the snakes. I raise cows also. They get good care while on my place even though one day they will end up on someones plate in the future. So I say thank you for the gentle reminder that sometimes money isn't the most important aspect to consider

[cobweb2000]

Thank you for posting this, I feel exactly the same way.

I find myself on this forum and hanging out with herp people else where less and less often precisely because of their inability to recongnize a rodent as a thinking, feeling creature whose life has intrinsic value.

It's depressing and does no good to the herp keeping community's image as a whole when loving snake owners have no empathy for the very animals whose lives allow them to keep their herps.

[littleindiangirl]

On the flip side, it is very hard for people to view a food item as a companion animal. Don't fault people because they choose not to make all of their animals pets.

If the animal is cared for in a humane matter, we shouldn't chastise people for not connecting with each animal they care for on a personal level.

But, it is okay to chastise when they don't treat the animal as a living, breathing thing, worthy of being treated humanly, in my opinion.

[Corvid]

Very well said.
Like my snakes, my rodents live in cages that are thought out for the animals, not economics.
My ASFs are fed good diets with lots of fruits and vegetables, along with their staple. I pay close attention to them and clean out their little eyes if they get dust in them. They all have wheels because they are happier with wheels.
All of the love and care I put into my feeders will, without a doubt, transfer into my snakes. That way, when I go to sell Quality snakes, I can back that up whole-heartedly.

Very good post, Thank you!

[Luvmycreatures]

On the flip side, it is very hard for people to view a food item as a companion animal. Don't fault people because they choose not to make all of their animals pets.
If the animal is cared for in a humane matter, we shouldn't chastise people for not connecting with each animal they care for on a personal level.

I'm not sure I implied that people should necessarily bond with food animals, and if I did, I certainly didn't mean to. Quality care doesn't necessarily equal bonding (though bonding it does make it easier to do the work involved) Some people just aren't rodent people (snake people, dog people etc). I just think as large, thinking creatures with the fate of beings much smaller and more vulnerable in our hands (and this is true of mice, snakes, children) that we need to take that seriously. As it's been proven with factory farming if you don't take care of the animals that feed you bad things happen.

[oliverstwist]

my mice get handled dailyever my hoppers for food. i love on them and make sure they are happy. my mommy mouse who works hard for me gets treats and loves to be pet and held. i figure it is the least i can do. i also try to not let her see me take a baby i think it hurts her less :\

[wilomn]

So, what you're saying then is that me keeping my rats in 5 gallon buckets with their food in the bucket and a bowl of water that is changed at least every couple of days is not good?

Hmmmmm.....

[green_man]

I most definitely agree that all animals should be treated humanely and given our utmost respect and care. We as humans have a responsibility to care for animals that are in all senses of the word, held captive by us. We should strive to treat them humanely and give them as good, if not better of a life then they would have in the wild.

But... This is primarily a reptile forum. We all strive to give our reptiles the best care first and foremost. Unfortunately, our reptile obsessed brains may sometimes put feeders as a lower priority then they deserve.

I like your post! We really do need to be reminded sometimes that ALL life is sacred.