NRIP? Is this a new HR669?

[Ladydragon]

Found this posted on another forum and became curious if this is another new threat to our hobby. I'm still reading through all the material so feel free to do the same and post your ideas on it.
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Tom Crutchfield posted this on KS -- thought I'd repost it here for thought and discussion.

I believe that a NEW version of this bill HR669 will be introduced very soon. After a LOT of searching both online and orally, I believe that NRIP will be the compromise offered by some in OUR OWN INDUSTRY. This stands for National Reptile Improvement Plan, and THIS IS NOT GOOD for the average Herper.

I would like to go on record as saying I'M OPPOSED TO NRIP AND EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH IT. This would "white list" certain species to be bred under certain conditions and only financially benefit some "snake and gecko mills" and not allow for investment herp breeders or Joe Herper who breeds a few herps he likes and sells offspring to finance his hobby.

While this bill could very well benefit me, I WILL NOT DESERT MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THIS INDUSTRY FOR MY PERSONAL GAIN!!! NRIP has been secretly in the works for over two years, and I don't believe in coincidences. I'm enclosing a link and would encourage all of you to read it and decide for yourselves. NRIP even casts a bad light on internet sales and reptile shows.

I woke up this morning and feel like I'm in the old Pogo Comic Strip where one of them says "I have met the enemy, and he is us." All of this seems to about some making a LOT OF MONEY, but then most things are about money.

Hang on you rodent breeders, there is a "NATIONAL RODENT IMPROVEMENT PLAN" out there that will have similar consequences. Thanks for reading this.
NRIP MEETING

several links on the subject as well.

http://www.avidpets.com/reptiles/nat...ement-plan.htm

http://www.naeppc.org/08conference/talk.html?id=20

http://www.pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28

http://www.pijac.org/_documents/nripadoptfinal.pdf

http://www.pijac.org/_documents/sopguide_comp.pdf

[Adam_Wysocki]

I spoke with Marshall Meyers from PIJAC yesterday and there is no relationship between NRIP and HR 669.

NRIP is a voluntary accreditation program available through PIJAC that was created many years ago in order to answer those that claimed the reptile industry wasn't doing enough to police itself. Over the years PIJAC has called on the reptile industry to work with them to improve the NRIP plan in a way that will work for everyone and has even held annual working groups on NRIP. Unfortunately, participation from the reptile industry has been minimal.

While personally, I'm not a huge fan of NRIP, I do appreciate it's underlying intent. It's my hope that in the future, more feedback from the reptile industry will help make NRIP generally acceptable. Being able to look inward at ourselves in order to answer our critics will only strengthen us in the future. In the United States, all industries are self regulating to some degree or another and it seems like a good time for us to step up.

I'm not sure what would lead anyone to would believe that there is a connection between NRIP and HR 669, but we've seen a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about HR 669, it's status, and it's future in the last couple weeks so it's certainly understandable.

-adam

[Skiploder]

Found this posted on another forum and became curious if this is another new threat to our hobby. I'm still reading through all the material so feel free to do the same and post your ideas on it.
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Tom Crutchfield posted this on KS -- thought I'd repost it here for thought and discussion.



several links on the subject as well.

http://www.avidpets.com/reptiles/nat...ement-plan.htm

http://www.naeppc.org/08conference/talk.html?id=20

http://www.pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28

http://www.pijac.org/_documents/nripadoptfinal.pdf

http://www.pijac.org/_documents/sopguide_comp.pdf

PIJAC has been pretty out front in stating they are interested in some sort of permitting process or BMP system from within the Hobby. It's amazing that people have no idea that PIJAC is not only a proponent of this, but has been discussing it for quite a while now....................

Crutchfield is very mysterious about stating all of his reasons for opposing the NRIP...making comments like "I have so many reasons why I oppose this I don't know where to start. At this time I'm NOT ready to make them public" . Not make them public? What?

I think having a code of ethics or BMP ceritification program within the Reptile Community is a good idea. It's the first step in backing the legislators off. Shrilly screaming that we won't accept any limits on reptile ownership will only lead to more and more attemps at bills like HR669.

If Mr. Crutchfield, or USARK for that matter, continues to shrilly scream that they will not allow or entertain any limits on reptile ownership, you can thank them and people like them for the federal and state laws that will be slamming into us in the near future.

Maybe if the "Reptile Nation" had been involved in Connecticut, most opistoglyphs and dendrobates would have been spared. Maybe if the "Reptile Nation" had been proactive instead of reactive, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in right now - fighting off truly draconian legislation that is not only ignorantly written but a threat to our hobby and many people's livelihood.

Do I feel I have the right to own any reptile I want? Within limits - yes. Would I be willing to provide a registering body proof that I am a prepared and repsonsible owner of potentially dangerous or invasive reptile? Yes. Would I be willing to pay for a permit for the privilege of owning these reptiles? Of course. Do I think anyone off the street has the right to own a hot or a giant constrictor? No - and I have a big problem with anyone who encourages otherwise - they are only giving these legislators ammo.

At a certain point, the other exotics (birds, rodents and fish) will cut their own deals with the government. Then we'll see if we're all still standing shoulder to shoulder.

In the meantime, I'm interested in hearing specifics from people on why a BMP program is such a bad idea.............

[Ladydragon]

thanx Adam. It is confusing, but its better to be aware of all that is going on then be blind-sided.

[Marg]

Do I feel I have the right to own any reptile I want? Within limits - yes.
Would I be willing to provide a registering body proof that I am a prepared
and repsonsible owner of potentially dangerous or invasive reptile?
Yes. Would I be willing to pay for a permit for the privilege of owning
these reptiles? Of course. Do I think anyone off the street has the right
to own a hot or a giant constrictor? No - and I have a big problem with
anyone who encourages otherwise
- they are only giving these legislators ammo.

I do not know what a BMP ceritification program is.
Is this like having a permit?

I agree with this part I quoted.
I also think just anyone off the street should own any animal,
without prior knowledge of the proper care.

I actually wish they already had some thing like this in place,
when I got My first snake.

I knew Nothing, and the pet shop attendant obviously didn't either.
I was illinformed of supplies, and proper feed, and housing.

I was not told of any heating requirements, nor about controling any
heating elements.

I was not even offered a care sheet, or told where I could find information.

Joe Schmoe off the street should be required to prove they know proper
care, and that they have proper housing, prior to purchasing any given species!

Similar to taking a drivers licence test.
One would need to answer specific questions, before they were allowed
to purchase an animal, and prove, with pictures I suppose, that a proper
enclosure was provided.
(make sence?)

Should we be required to microchip?
I am caught between yes and no.

Yes, because those ignorant persons who release any animal should be
held responcible.

No, because If a law was passed where our animals would be ceased,
and or destroyed, I would not want anyone knowing where I reside.

I have put a lot of care and effort into my pets,
not to mention time and money!

Marg

[Skiploder]

I do not know what a BMP ceritification program is.
Is this like having a permit?

I agree with this part I quoted.
I also think just anyone off the street should own any animal,
without prior knowledge of the proper care.

I actually wish they already had some thing like this in place,
when I got My first snake.

I knew Nothing, and the pet shop attendant obviously didn't either.
I was illinformed of supplies, and proper feed, and housing.

I was not told of any heating requirements, nor about controling any
heating elements.

I was not even offered a care sheet, or told where I could find information.

Joe Schmoe off the street should be required to prove they know proper
care, and that they have proper housing, prior to purchasing any given species!

Similar to taking a drivers licence test.
One would need to answer specific questions, before they were allowed
to purchase an animal, and prove, with pictures I suppose, that a proper
enclosure was provided.
(make sence?)

Should we be required to microchip?
I am caught between yes and no.

Yes, because those ignorant persons who release any animal should be
held responcible.

No, because If a law was passed where our animals would be ceased,
and or destroyed, I would not want anyone knowing where I reside.

I have put a lot of care and effort into my pets,
not to mention time and money!

Marg

Marg:

BMP stands for Best Management Practice.

A BMP is a technique or methodology that, through experience and/or research, has proven to reliably lead to a desired result.

In other words the NRIP is a set of BMPs developed by reptile industry "experts" aimed at improving and standardizing reptile importation, general husbandry (veterinary inspections, quarantines and sanitization), breeding, transportation, employee training and sales.

The links in the OP's first post lead to a very detailed outline of the NRIP. Apparently, some people see evil and doom in this proposed attempt at VOLUNTARY self-regulation.

[wolfy-hound]

I compare NRIP to the AKC in the dog world. You are in no way required to abide by AKC standard of record keeping etc.. but you are seen as more legitimate if you're a accreditted AKC breeder of dogs.
I think the NRIP would be similar, as long as it's a voluntary program. It just basically says you're taking proper care of the reptiles, practicing proper quarentine, and using good guidelines in how you buy and sell animals. It's what we would all be saying any responsible breeder should be doing anyway, except it says you can be inspected to show you are indeed practicing what you preach.
The NRIP was also written in about 2003, so it's not new. I'm not a huge fan of the amounts of the fees projected in it, honestly they seem a bit high, especially if they are yearly dues.

[BHB]

A response from Bill Brant, a huge member of the reptile community as well as a board member of PIJAC: Would love for everyone to read!

April 30, 2009

Hello Fellow Herpers,

In recent days there have been many comments on topics related to HR669, so I

decided to make a few of my own. If you care to, please forward this letter on to others as

food for thought. My name is Bill Brant, and my wife and I own The Gourmet Rodent. I

have been on the board of directors for the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC)

since March, 2003. I have also represented the Reptile Industry in Florida on the Animal

Industry Technical Council (AITC), an advisory council to the Commissioner of

Agriculture for the state of Florida.

In recent months our industry has been involved in several high profile pieces of

federal legislation, HR669 and S373. HR669 has gotten more attention in recent months

because it just came before the House Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and

Wildlife, but make no mistake, S373 as well as other issues threaten our emerging

industry.

I have been encouraged by the outpouring of responses that preceded the hearing on

HR669, however I have been saddened and somewhat confused by the responses I have

seen on several of the forums by the leadership in the industry.

My confusion is because many posts indicate that HR669 is dead in the water. To my

knowledge, that is not the case. At the end of the hearing, Rep. Bordallo stated that there

would be a ten day comment period. I have seen nothing official that states anything

other than the bill is still in progress,

(http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/...Itemid=60&extm

ode=view&extid=246).

Even if it is going to undergo a significant revision, or a re-write, I believe our

industry should offer to help come to a reasonable compromise, rather than dig our heels

in and take the position of no compromise. If we do that, we may find out that we are in

the minority, and get out voted. I also think it is unwise to prematurely claim victory at

this point in time. We may have gotten their attention, and earned their respect for having

garnered so much grassroots support, however to “crow” about victory prematurely could

cause them to take a more unyielding position when it comes down to the compromises

they are willing to concede to.

I am saddened by the misinformation that is abundant in recent posts on forums.

Especially when it comes to the intent and impact of the National Reptile Improvement

Plan (NRIP). To understand its intent, you need to understand its inception. It came about

as a result of the “Tick Symposium” held in July 2000 in Tallahassee, FL. The Tick

meeting came about because regulators in the Florida Department of Agriculture and the

US Department of Agriculture were responding to the “Heartwater Scare” of 1999. Ticks

carrying the bacterium that causes Heartwater Disease, a very fatal disease for ruminant

animals such as cattle, sheep and deer, were found on imported Leopard Tortoises. At the

time, FDOACS and USDA had no idea who the reptile industry was, so they sponsored

the symposium to see who would show up.

PIJAC and many concerned herpers showed up to try to limit the action of USDA and

FDOACS to just the reptiles that could be carrying the vector ticks. It became apparent at

the symposium that our industry would need Best Management Practices and Standard

Operating Procedures in order to have credibility in the eyes of our regulators. That is the

reason why NRIP was drafted, not to create an elite group of larger reptile dealers and

breeders. It took three years, and was open to anyone who showed an interest in

participating in the process. We welcomed all the help we could get.

In June 2008, we convened a group of interested herpers at the PIJAC office in

Washington, DC to review the NRIP document for potential amendments. One of the

topics we addressed was making the program more user friendly for smaller reptile

breeders of all types, sizes and descriptions. Most importantly, I want to emphasize that it

is PIJAC’s desire to have NRIP be a voluntary program. I think it is interesting to see the

similarity between the “code of ethics” of NCARK (the precursor of USARK) , and the

NRIP program. Please take time to check them out.( http://www.ncark.org/ethics.php)

(http://pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28).

A final reason why I am saddened is the seeming rivalry between USARK and PIJAC.

I suspect that this is the result of one being a forty year old organization, and the other

being a one year old organization. I am a member of both organizations, and urge you to

do the same. They both have something to add to our common cause. USARK is young

and reptile specific. PIJAC is seasoned and has been the “go to” resource for regulators

and legislators for decades. As far as I can tell, the desired outcome of both organizations

is to have a workable set of regulations that enable people to pursue their passion for

reptiles while providing protection for the environment, public health and safeguards for

people in our communities that don’t share our enthusiasm for reptiles. ( PIJAC’s

position on HR669 is included here: http://pijac.org/governmentaffairs/hr669forum.asp )

I think our interests would be better served if we focused on solving the legislative

challenges we all face in a unified manner. Please consider what I have said. I look

forward to seeing many of you at the Daytona Expo, or the NARBC shows that I attend.

Sincerely,

Bill Brant

The Gourmet Rodent

[mooingtricycle]

I posted in the other thread regarding this as well. I do not, as it stands, support this program. Sorry. the fees are too high for me to want to bother with it when i do everything in it on my own for free, without someone telling me im doing everything right. The fauna BOI is good enough for me, and besides, i appreciate a peer reviewed method anyway.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I posted in the other thread regarding this as well. I do not, as it stands, support this program. Sorry. the fees are too high for me to want to bother with it when i do everything in it on my own for free, without someone telling me im doing everything right. The fauna BOI is good enough for me, and besides, i appreciate a peer reviewed method anyway.

With any large group of people you'll certainly have all different views as to what will and won't work for each on a case by case basis. NRIP is of course completely voluntary and just as some people will choose to pursue accreditation, others will not.

Personally, I'm not a fan and NRIP either and don't plan on becoming accredited any time soon. But, I know that my input about what I think is and isn't workable in the program has been well received and is very appreciated by PIJAC.

I would encourage you to contact PIJAC (whether you're a member or not) with your concerns so that they can be taken into account and hopefully be considered during future revisions to NRIP program.

Not every idea or program that an organization like PIJAC (or any other organization) is going to be a home run out right off the bat. But, with great communication and constructive feedback from the community, we can all work together to better our industry.

Everyone has a voice and organizations like USARK, PIJAC, NAIA, etc are there to listen and support all of us.

-adam