Help for Baby?

[Spaniard]

I don't think aggressive confrontation is part of Ceasar's vocabulary. Have you watched the show at all?

80% of the dogs on that show have their problems remedied by being taken on a walk. How is that so horrible?

Sure some of those red zone cases are pretty intense but what do you expect...

Other training methods may work but I don't think anything addresses the core of the problem as quickly as Ceasar. Rules, boundaries, limitations, and calm assurance, I still don't get what is so cruel about this?

[katiadarling]

Spaniard- I have watched his show thanks, but only a few episodes as it was not an enjoyable experience. Your comment that 80% of cases have their problems remedied by being taken on a walk is, I believe far from the truth. As littleindiangirl said, "I also feel the need to point out that the programs aired on TV are short glimpses, and are edited to make it suitable as a tv program. We really have no way of knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes." Yes many American dogs are in bad need of exercise and getting that can help to alleviate their issues, but I wouldn't say that solves them completely.

I would say that doing things like alpha rolling a dog with fear-based issues is an aggressive confrontation, as is staring down a dog. Whether he explicitly says that on his show or not (and I'm sure he wouldn't) that is in effect what he is doing.

That is wonderful that his methods work for him, but the fact of the matter is that there is a lot of evidence out there that supports the positive reinforcement method. I have less of a problem with Cesar performing the methods than I do with the fact that un-trained people are trying to duplicate them in very dangerous situations. It is well known that a stressed, fearful dog is more likely to bite and I feel that his methods put people in danger of being bitten.

[Spaniard]

We obviously will not see eye to eye, I do however suggest you watch more than a few shows before you pass judgement. I've seen almost all of them and in doing so you do get to see more of the behind the scenes rehabilitation he does at his facility. Some cases where dogs needed to go to his facility for a few weeks to be part of a pack and the methods he uses there. Such as play time which is a positive re-inforcement as well as the affection he shows when the dogs enter a calm state of mind.

One thing is for sure, I've never seen a dog he did not help become a happier member of the family. His follow up shows on past cases is proof that not only did he help the dog but train the people to properly maintian the dogs physical and mental health.

[katiadarling]

I think you're missing the point. I think it's great for him to use the techniques if they work for him and he can do so safely. I don't think it's good for people with no dog training experience to try to use his techniques at the risk of them getting bitten. As littleindiangirl said, there are many different training styles. My recommendation would be that people only use physical dominance based training styles under the close guidance of a trainer.

I don't feel the need to watch his show and I think I have a very good grasp of his training techniques. Obviously they work for him... I just don't think they should be tried by someone who is a novice at training.

As for your last comment, I would guess that his show only airs the success stories. Sadly, not all dogs can be rehabilitated.

[Spaniard]

Katia,

My point being that you're doing a lot of guessing without actually seeing the show. Obviously not all dogs can be rehabilitated. However condoning his methods without even seeing a bulk of his shows is wrong. I think Goose can benefit tremendously by trying to contact him. Your views which were based on little personal experience could have deterred him for trying this avenue for help. Maybe we should start a new thread about Ceasar because after all this thread was about helping Goose out with his situation. As far as I'm concerned I'm done discussing it here. Goose I wish you the best of luck in dealing with such a hard dilemma.

[Jenn]

Rehabilitation or no, the issue remains that owning a pitbull in most states will void your homeowners insurance. I couldn't imagine being in your situation. My heart goes out to you friend. Good luck.

[Gooseman]

I am very grateful for everything written in this thread as it's the kinda help I was looking for. At this point in time I think as many possible opinions or ideas that are constructve for baby to be very helpful. After doing sveral more hours of research on the matter and what to do it has given me alot of hope. Much of what I have read has been very positive. Though I have had a hard time locating a no kill shelter that will help take her, I have by their own guidlines been given more of a reason to not give up on her. The big thing is that she hasnt shown any aggression towards humans, just other dogs. But even then it's playtime gone too far rather than an aggressive dog seaching for a fight. By these standards she's not a lost cause, only a dog that requires a more experienced trainer/owner than myself. I honestly don't have a clue how or if a trainer could stop or control her aggression other than my keeping her isolated from other dogs, as it's not outright aggression if there is such a thing. So in my mind I think shell be a perfect companion for someone without any other dogs or small children who she could rough house with, problem is finding a safe suitable home before another incident occurs.

My only reservation is that I would like a pro see if they could teach her not to go too far when playing. As I have to be careful playing with rope toys etc, as at times I worry shell go for the rope and latch onto my arm instead.When I see her getting dangerously riled up playtime is over, I just would like to find a way that would keep her from getting to that breaking point before I find her a new home. Get what I'm saying?

[Jenn]

Goosman don't confuse training with temperment. I have the worlds biggest love sponge and he is very very well trained. However, I also saw him take down a full grown turkey from mid-flight and rip it in half.

[Gooseman]

It sucks because she has come so far from when I first picked her up. She finally loves other people and dogs, problem is she may just a little too much!

[katiadarling]

IMO that's actually great that it seems to be an arousal thing rather than an actual aggression thing, arousal is something that can be worked with more than aggression can. Have you tried finding a trainer in your area to consult with? A local humane society might be able to give you some good leads.

I found this pdf, http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/LoweringArousal.pdf I haven't worked with dogs with arousal issues, but the thoughts behind this training seemed interesting.

The trainers I've worked with suggest scattering treats as a way to lessen upward motivated arousal (as long as the dog is treat motivated and isn't so aroused as to not notice when the treats are scattered.) This is the link to the trainers at the humane society I worked at http://www.boulderhumane.org/hsbv/go.asp?mode=tc They are really good and might be able to point you in a direction you haven't tried yet.

Rehoming her seems like a definite possibility as long as you can direct the new owners about appropriate behaviors and risky situations and they seem solid and responsible.