Help for Baby?

[wolfy-hound]

You also need to consider that even if the new family/person does not have kids, or pets, there still will be a chance that a friend willc ome over with a child, or that a dog will get walked too close while the new owner has her on a leash.
It's a hard decision to make, but putting her into a new home may not be the best thing for all.

[recycling goddess]

ben, why not email dog whisperer and see if they'll take her?

[katiadarling]

Recycling goddess, I don't mean this to be too mean, I have great respect for you and normally your comments are right on, but honestly, the dog whisperer's methods are highly questionable. He's gotten a lot of heat from American Humane... I would really not recommend contacting him for Baby.

Gooseman- I would recommend contacting Bad Rap (www.badrap.org) and seeing if they have any thoughts or contacts that could help you out. I'm sorry that you're in such a tough situation.

[recycling goddess]

You are allowed your opinion katia... I'd still contact him cause if he'll take her... and she'll have a good life... that's all that matters IMO.

[littleindiangirl]

Goose, I strongly advise contacting Cesar. He doesn't anthropomorphize, and he understands the nature of the dog pack.

but honestly, the dog whisperer's methods are highly questionable. He's gotten a lot of heat from American Humane... I would really not recommend contacting him for Baby.

Treating an animal and expecting it to react like a human is doing the animal a huge disservice. Respect the nature of the animal, which I believe is EXACTLY what Cesar does.

The American humane society believes that we should respond to and train animals like humans in fur coats and expect them to respond to it. That to me is not responsible, and is severely misguided at best.

Also, the AHS believes his methods are inhumane? Where in the world do they get this? He does not physically abuse any animal, he respects, treats them with love and rewards a calm and well adjusted behavior.

Maybe I'm just going on a tangent, but I have no respect for people that expect dogs to act like humans with fur, and are frustrated when the dog is wild, unbalanced shy or aggressive because of the lack of leadership from the human. That to me is completely irresponsible.

You can't heal an animals behavior by just loving it. That is not what a dog needs is just love, otherwise we wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of dogs in shelters or dropped off because their owners couldn't handle them.


Ben, I sincerely hope you are blessed with a solution to this problem, baby is a wonderful girl and you have been incredibly kind to her through everything.

[katiadarling]

right.... taking a dog that has had issues with other dogs and trying to get a guy who has... 50 dogs (just an estimate, but he has A LOT) to take it and work with it... to me that's asking for trouble.

I don't think treating dogs like "humans in fur coats" is the way to go and I don't believe I said that Cesar abuses animals... I said that his techniques are questionable. I stand by those remarks. One example of his techniques being questionable is that one show featured a chihuahua that bit anyone who wasn't its owner. His advice was for the dog to be handed off to other people and held until it stopped trying to bite. To me this sounds like a recipe for disaster and I think that there are much better solutions that could be tried first, such as not allowing the dog on furniture, not holding the dog, training the animal and basically making it work for its keep. The dog obviously has been allowed to think it rules the household, which is likely to be one of the main reasons it tries to bite.

I have two dogs, both of whom I've trained myself and they are awesome animals. I get comments all the time about how amazing they are. littleindiangirl, I have to say I lost a lot of respect for you from your tangent and your generalization of me based on my posting a widely held belief. I live in an area where dogs are often treated like children and honestly, it makes me sick and it doesn't do anything good for the dogs. I still don't think that Cesar Milan is the right guy to teach America how to handle their dogs, his methods might work for him, but I don't think they should be applied on a broad scale by people who are inexperienced with dogs.

anyway, gooseman, still hoping for the best outcome for Baby.

[littleindiangirl]

right.... taking a dog that has had issues with other dogs and trying to get a guy who has... 50 dogs (just an estimate, but he has A LOT) to take it and work with it... to me that's asking for trouble.

I don't think treating dogs like "humans in fur coats" is the way to go and I don't believe I said that Cesar abuses animals... I said that his techniques are questionable. I stand by those remarks. One example of his techniques being questionable is that one show featured a chihuahua that bit anyone who wasn't its owner. His advice was for the dog to be handed off to other people and held until it stopped trying to bite. To me this sounds like a recipe for disaster and I think that there are much better solutions that could be tried first, such as not allowing the dog on furniture, not holding the dog, training the animal and basically making it work for its keep. The dog obviously has been allowed to think it rules the household, which is likely to be one of the main reasons it tries to bite.

I have two dogs, both of whom I've trained myself and they are awesome animals. I get comments all the time about how amazing they are. littleindiangirl, I have to say I lost a lot of respect for you from your tangent and your generalization of me based on my posting a widely held belief.

Katia,

If you lose respect because of me voicing MY opinions, that's okay by me. We all have the right to discuss on a forum.

However, I DO have to point out I criticized the AHS, Not you personally. I can't control what you read between the lines, however I did not quote you to criticize you, frankly, you did not mention one word of how you train animals, or even if you had an animal, and I don't believe I had even hinted at your methods in any way shape or form.

Maybe next time, read the words written there? I realize it says "you", but it was not meant for you katiadarling, but the people that believe loving an animal is enough to fix it.


I also feel the need to point out that the programs aired on TV are short glimpses, and are edited to make it suitable as a tv program. We really have no way of knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes.

[Spaniard]

I think Ceasar is a genius when it comes to dogs and dog pyschology. He's helped many families learn how to better enjoy their pets and vice versa. I think his methods are pretty rational and his results cannot be disputed.

Goose I think contacting him would be a great idea and you certainly have nothing to loose trying.

[katiadarling]

Maybe I'm just going on a tangent, but I have no respect for people that expect dogs to act like humans with fur, and are frustrated when the dog is wild, unbalanced shy or aggressive because of the lack of leadership from the human. That to me is completely irresponsible.

littleindiangirl- this is the passage that got me. You quoted my post and then went on to say, ya da ya da, I have no respect for people that expect dogs to act like humans... perhaps I read too deeply, but I certainly based my comments on what you said and what appeared to be (based on you quoting me) a direct jab at me.

Here's a quote from Urbandawgs.com about training techniques, "The force-free movement gains momentum every year and a sure sign of this is that many trainers in the other camps resort to murkier and murkier euphemisms to disguise their more violent practices and retain their market share. Stressed dogs aren't "shut down," they're "calm." It's not strangling, it's "leading." As a committed devotee of the "dog-friendly" camp, I am therefore, along with my colleagues here at The San Francisco SPCA, somewhat agog at the stunning success of "The Dog Whisperer". This is pretty ferocious stuff by anybody's standards. The National Geographic Channel even runs a disclaimer banner at the bottom of the screen admonishing people to "not try this at home," a warning notably absent on home improvement shows or "Nanny 911". Many have suggested that the cloaking of corporal punishments and hazing in mystical language, promise of instant results, high octane telegenicity of Cesar Milan and lucky connections with Los Angeles celebrity clients are sufficient explanation for the Dog Whisperer phenomenon."

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's opinions. I prefer a primarily positive reinforcement based training technique and have seen it work very well for my dogs and for many of my colleagues animals, but if you want to endorse old-school fear based training that's fine by me. I still fail to see how aggressively confronting a fearful dog is a good idea, let alone a good idea to teach the general public, but who am I to care if people do things that result in them getting bitten...

[littleindiangirl]

Well, at least we understand your position.

I completely disgree with your opinion and the AHS's opinion about Cesar's methods.

However, I DO agree that there is not ONE correct method to rehabilitating dogs and training. I personally completely support Cesar's calm assertive approach.