Buyers beware!

[ThyTempest]

x2



Well now that I know how you feel about the proper treatment of animals... *knows better than to type what she's thinking* for shame...

I know how you feel....

[numba1stuna8162]

ohh BTW i dont know what happened to the snake yet, i think broadude said that b/c I hadnt answered yet and I have a new healthy snake that is doing magnificent in his new enclosure

[ThyTempest]

And still goes without answering the other million and a half questions asked.

Seriously, not off to a good start.

[dr del]

Hi,

If it helps you have gallery space on this site as well - ask any of the staff if you need help getting the pics up using it and we will try our best to help.

I think the part that makes everyone want to know what happened, yourself included I imagine, was the sheer speed with which the animal passed from healthy to deceased.

Most of the common problems just don't progress that fast and the ones that do are mostly environmental (toxins, overheating, trauma, congenital defects etc etc).


dr del

[Tosha_Mc]

I am sorry for your loss.

Just by your description I would venture to guess two heat lamps and an UTH on a 10 gallon tank was probably too hot. Did you check the temperature inside the hide?

Anyway without a necropsy you'll never really know -- since the snake seemed alert and healthy at the show and it wasn't apparent to you that there was something wrong then you can't really blame the seller either. It does seem like he did a fair job at trying to make it right.

Good luck with your new snake.

[joepythons]

Humm let’s see...where to start? Well let’s see, I am a little upset at all the assumptions and accusations going around, definitely did not expect that from this forum, but that’s beside the point. It’s also funny how if I happen to be away from my computer for any length of time, and don’t offer a reply within two seconds of someone’s post (Pandora, joepythons), all of a sudden I’m responsible for the death of the snake, I’m this horrible person, and you want to get angry. Sorry, I have a job and I have a life, just because I don’t reply to posts every 3 hours is irrelevant to me ( and the point remains that I did reply).

Next, as far as the quarantining process, why is that such a big deal? You all act like I put her in a small fish bowl with paper towels and no heat. And since apparently I need to reveal every minute detail about the quarantine, I will do that right now. I got the snake home, took her out of her tiny tube that she was sold to me in, you know the clear plastic tubs that you often see snakes being sold in at reptile expos? I put her into a separate, not the actual tank I had setup as her actual home, a separate 10 gallon tank that I prepared the night before, that day would be Friday, January 9th.

On Friday night, I cleaned the empty 10 gallon aquarium(remember she is about or less than a foot long) with a 5% bleach solution and let it sit for 5 minutes, then I came back rinsed the tank out with hot water (made sure the UTH did not get wet b/c I am sure someone is gonna jump to conclusions and say u messed up the UTH by getting it wet, the snake froze to death, its your fault, stop flaming the breeder) dried it and let it sit for 1 hour. After the tank sat for an hour I put about three layers of white paper towels down in the bottom of the tank, then I put in two identical hides which also were cleaned prior to being put in the aquarium, one on the cool side and one on the hot side. Then I put a medium sized water bowl in the middle of the tank between hides, and a piece of driftwood on the hot side. Finally, I put a screen top on the aquarium and put two heat lamps on top, one on the cool side, one on the hot side. I let the hot side lamp heat up and with two digital thermometers with probes, watched the temps, hot side was at a constant 90, cool side read 82, and digital hygrometer was at constant 52%. I also have fish tank thermometers stuck to the back of the aquarium about 2 inches above the ground on both sides which measured same temps as probed thermos.

Let me restate myself, the purpose of putting her in this separate tank was to make sure she did not have mites, yes I could have done that at the show, but you have to understand that the Havre de Grace show is in a tiny community center and is packed with people looking over your shoulders at other snakes, bumping you, noisy, and the lighting is not that good, so seeing tiny mites on your hand in this environment is not as easy as say….in a 10 gallon tank with white paper towels and proper lighting. I still did a good examination of the snake at the show which is why I said everything about her seemed to be healthy, unless I could have missed something which I never denied however it is still the breeders job to not sell unhealthy snakes, unless of course he didn’t realize that the snake was sick, then we are both just out of luck.

Anyway this is getting long so I’m wrapping it up, I get the snake home…btw in addition to me cupping the snake’s container in my hands for warmth on the ride home, I obviously had the heat on in the car, so whoever wrote that cupping my hands isn’t sufficient heating, umm I don’t know what to say to you, I figured that me having the heat on in the car was a given…but I guess not. Moving on, I get home put the snake in the 10 gallon tank, AGAIN I am checking for mites NOT treating for them, with that said there were no chemicals put in the cage, no chemicals used on the snake, no nothing!! So like I said I put her in the tank, watch her explore for a couple of minutes maybe 10, check temps and humidity, they are perfect, I walk away, grab some food and watch tv for 30 minutes, come back look under the warm side hide (which btw isn’t right above the UTH) and she is laying there on her side lifeless and limp.. I hope that explains everything and I am done with my trial. I came here looking for a since of community in trying to figure out what happened to my snake for it to go so suddenly and deduce some possible answers, not for ppl to take sides on this and that, point fingers, get angry, assume and jump to conclusions. I hope to God that the government doesn’t make it a Federal law not to own snakes because we wouldn’t be able to come together as a community to fight that law based off of what I’ve seen in the past few hours since I posted this. All that I care about and to me the most important thing is that there is a dead ball python and I want to figure out why this happened. As far as broadude, I reached out to her and she reached back and that is why she has pictures and knows the ins and outs of the whole ordeal…she also has pictures because I could send them to her email, and I don’t have photobucket so I cannot put them up here, yet. Also broadude, thank you so much for all your help and everything, I really appreciate it!!

Hmm all this and still not sharing the real reason she died .Well fact is you trash mouthed a person for no reason and thats all no more no less.

[joepythons]

ohh BTW i dont know what happened to the snake yet, i think broadude said that b/c I hadnt answered yet and I have a new healthy snake that is doing magnificent in his new enclosure

Hmm since you did not respond back she just came up with the reason how your snake died huh??? Once again this thread is a big waste of our sites space on the web

[Bruce Whitehead]

I came here looking for a since of community in trying to figure out what happened to my snake for it to go so suddenly and deduce some possible answers...

Guess I missed that part.

My bad.

Bruce

[blackcrystal22]

Humm let’s see...where to start? Well let’s see, I am a little upset at all the assumptions and accusations going around, definitely did not expect that from this forum, but that’s beside the point. It’s also funny how if I happen to be away from my computer for any length of time, and don’t offer a reply within two seconds of someone’s post (Pandora, joepythons), all of a sudden I’m responsible for the death of the snake, I’m this horrible person, and you want to get angry. Sorry, I have a job and I have a life, just because I don’t reply to posts every 3 hours is irrelevant to me ( and the point remains that I did reply).

Next, as far as the quarantining process, why is that such a big deal? You all act like I put her in a small fish bowl with paper towels and no heat. And since apparently I need to reveal every minute detail about the quarantine, I will do that right now. I got the snake home, took her out of her tiny tube that she was sold to me in, you know the clear plastic tubs that you often see snakes being sold in at reptile expos? I put her into a separate, not the actual tank I had setup as her actual home, a separate 10 gallon tank that I prepared the night before, that day would be Friday, January 9th.

On Friday night, I cleaned the empty 10 gallon aquarium(remember she is about or less than a foot long) with a 5% bleach solution and let it sit for 5 minutes, then I came back rinsed the tank out with hot water (made sure the UTH did not get wet b/c I am sure someone is gonna jump to conclusions and say u messed up the UTH by getting it wet, the snake froze to death, its your fault, stop flaming the breeder) dried it and let it sit for 1 hour. After the tank sat for an hour I put about three layers of white paper towels down in the bottom of the tank, then I put in two identical hides which also were cleaned prior to being put in the aquarium, one on the cool side and one on the hot side. Then I put a medium sized water bowl in the middle of the tank between hides, and a piece of driftwood on the hot side. Finally, I put a screen top on the aquarium and put two heat lamps on top, one on the cool side, one on the hot side. I let the hot side lamp heat up and with two digital thermometers with probes, watched the temps, hot side was at a constant 90, cool side read 82, and digital hygrometer was at constant 52%. I also have fish tank thermometers stuck to the back of the aquarium about 2 inches above the ground on both sides which measured same temps as probed thermos.

Let me restate myself, the purpose of putting her in this separate tank was to make sure she did not have mites, yes I could have done that at the show, but you have to understand that the Havre de Grace show is in a tiny community center and is packed with people looking over your shoulders at other snakes, bumping you, noisy, and the lighting is not that good, so seeing tiny mites on your hand in this environment is not as easy as say….in a 10 gallon tank with white paper towels and proper lighting. I still did a good examination of the snake at the show which is why I said everything about her seemed to be healthy, unless I could have missed something which I never denied however it is still the breeders job to not sell unhealthy snakes, unless of course he didn’t realize that the snake was sick, then we are both just out of luck.

Anyway this is getting long so I’m wrapping it up, I get the snake home…btw in addition to me cupping the snake’s container in my hands for warmth on the ride home, I obviously had the heat on in the car, so whoever wrote that cupping my hands isn’t sufficient heating, umm I don’t know what to say to you, I figured that me having the heat on in the car was a given…but I guess not. Moving on, I get home put the snake in the 10 gallon tank, AGAIN I am checking for mites NOT treating for them, with that said there were no chemicals put in the cage, no chemicals used on the snake, no nothing!! So like I said I put her in the tank, watch her explore for a couple of minutes maybe 10, check temps and humidity, they are perfect, I walk away, grab some food and watch tv for 30 minutes, come back look under the warm side hide (which btw isn’t right above the UTH) and she is laying there on her side lifeless and limp.. I hope that explains everything and I am done with my trial. I came here looking for a since of community in trying to figure out what happened to my snake for it to go so suddenly and deduce some possible answers, not for ppl to take sides on this and that, point fingers, get angry, assume and jump to conclusions. I hope to God that the government doesn’t make it a Federal law not to own snakes because we wouldn’t be able to come together as a community to fight that law based off of what I’ve seen in the past few hours since I posted this. All that I care about and to me the most important thing is that there is a dead ball python and I want to figure out why this happened. As far as broadude, I reached out to her and she reached back and that is why she has pictures and knows the ins and outs of the whole ordeal…she also has pictures because I could send them to her email, and I don’t have photobucket so I cannot put them up here, yet. Also broadude, thank you so much for all your help and everything, I really appreciate it!!

Generally this site treats people with a lot of respect and helpful information. However, when you make your first post as a very vague and difficult accusation against a breeder, we have the right to question. An accusation is a very very heavy thing in the reptile community. If one makes such an accusation, they need a lot of evidence and support because someones business and lifestyle is at stake. That's why fauna does everything they can to get all of the information on a scamming breeder so that they have hardcore evidence.
Unfortunately you gave us very little to work with, and came here with a lot of accusations from yourself with very little evidence or information to back it up.

The reason people became so upset, is because you accused the breeder of scamming you, when the snake was healthy looking when you got it, it died in such a short amount of time under unknown causes, he offered you a new snake and to pay the fee at the door of the show, discouraged shipping because of the cold and with a normal $50 charge, and you still blamed him for scamming. We did not see what the breeder did wrong. If the breeder refused to give you an animal, that would be a reason to accuse him.

Because we didn't see what the breeder did wrong, and the fact that you were making false accusations, we turned to the option of you pushing the blame on the breeder.

I'm not saying it's either of your faults for the death of the snake, and the death is always sad as we are sorry for your loss. Just trying to straighten things out.

By the way, IMO, Quarantine should only apply when there are other animals or snakes in a collection. Otherwise it virtually does not exist, as it is not needed and is impossible.

[blackcrystal22]

Hmm since you did not respond back she just came up with the reason how your snake died huh??? Once again this thread is a big waste of our sites space on the web

I strongly suggest to not be so snappy towards the OP (everyone, not just you). It really isn't helping the situation, and doesn't make yourself look very good as well..