What do you say to the people who give you flak for cropping and docking?

[SlitherinSisters]

I haven't gotten too much flack for it, but on those rare occassions that I have, I just smile and tell them I appreciate their opinion and then quickly move on. Getting into an argument about it rarely changes anyone's minds and isn't worth my time, personally.

Having done a lot of research and speaking with several breeders before getting my dobe, I learned that very few truly good breeders will even allow their pups to not be cropped and docked. The whole littler is docked (and dewclaws removed) when they are just a couple days old....and many whole litters are cropped at the same time before going to new homes as well. The primary reason I was given for this was that if a time should ever come that the dog needs to go to a new home, they are far far more likely to be placed if they are both cropped and docked. "Natural" dobies are way more likely to end up in shelters and be put to sleep.

You know, I didn't even think about that. Natural Dobermans are probably much more likely to not find a home or be put to sleep. If I was looking for an adult I would be looking for one that was cropped. I would have loved to adopt one, but I just can't take the risk of not knowing where or how my "dangerous" breed dog grew up. I didn't realize how dangerous the public still thinks dobes are. My mom called me up one day because her insurance company called to ask if she had one of the three lock-jaw breeds: pit bull, rot, and doberman. We spoke with our insurance company and they are still covering our house thank goodness!!!

I personally think the ear cropping for prevention of ear infections is a load of bunk. If anything, more dirt and debris can enter the ear canal. As a groomer, I see way more schnauzers with cropped ears having ear issues, than ones with uncropped ears. I don't think it CAUSES ear issues though.
Ear cropping, and tail docking is a cosmetic procedure, and there is no other reason for it. It's not illegil here, and until it is illegil, people will continue to have it preformed on some dogs.
I like dobies with cropped ears and tails. I like the look of it. I still think it's a unneccesary procedure, and for show, any OTHER surgery to alter the dog's appearance is grounds for disqualification, so I don't know why they still allow docking and cropping in show dogs.
I do NOT think ear cropping affects the dog past the first few days of recovery. As long as the owner isn't pulling at the ears or anything, I don't think the dog will remember anything about it at all. The tail docking is normally done at day 3 or earlier, and is harmless, with the pups rarely showing any ill effect(same with dew claw removal which DOES have good reasons behind it). The vet next to the shop I worked at did show ear cropping, and I watched a LOT of pups go through it, and they did not seem to be bothered by it.
If someone bugged me about my cropped dog, I'd tell them to mind their own business, that my dog was perfectly happy, and walk on. Life's too short to bother paying attention to lunatics.

That's what I think, they aren't going to remember it. And it seems to be relatively painless just a week later. I've always wondered why people think it's ok to remove the dew claws. It must have some sort of health reason? The only reason I've ever experienced is the large breeds will call the crap out of you if they jump on you or play with their feet.

Alright... here we go.

First off, let me say that your pup is adorable. Her little(or big I guess) radar ears are so cute - and they will be gorgeous when she grows into them - right now they are just adorable though.

That being said, I like my dogs with tails and floppy ears and a couple years ago I may have had more to say about getting dogs tails docked and ears cropped but I learned something very important.

As anyone can see to get ears cropped and have them the way you want them (not flopping) it takes a lot of time and care! As your pictures hvae been showing you have to have them taped and tend to them and check on them, it isn't something that just over and done and you don't have to follow up. So honestly, everytime I see a dobie with cropped ears sticking up - to me that says someone cared a lot about that dog and put a lot of time into that dog.

And then I worked in a dog shelter and I saw a lot of dogs with no homes, that were abused, that lived horrible lives and a lot of them that ended that horrible life by being put down somewhere that wasn't a home - that some of them never knew a home and I got a lot of perspective on the kinds of things that are inhumane and the kinds of things that aren't.

So I could lie and say I've never had a problem with it - but I did used to so I guess you could call me a convert. Because even something that is done for cosmetic purposes, who cares? The dog is in a loving home, the dog is well taken care of - and honestly.. the dog really seems like it couldn't care less about its ears being cropped or its tail being docked.

Bottom line that I'd tell people that give you flak - the dog is loved, the dog is happy, the dog is healthy. What else is important?

That's a good point. It does take a lot of time and effort, not to mention money, to get their ears to stand up and look nice. Last week I was pointing ointment on her ears twice a day to help them heal faster. It's not a one person simple job either! They are tricky, bouncy little buggers! We take the tape off again on Tuesday and leave it off for a day. It will be so exciting when we can leave the tape off and look at her ears all day! I'm kind of excited because the vet will see her without the tape! One of the vet techs wants a dobe and really wants to see how well her ears turned out. I love my baby and I can't wait till she has all her shots and I can show her off to everyone! So far I've only taken her places with people and no dogs. One of the pet stores in Iowa City is known to have puppies with Parvo and I'm not stepping foot in there until she has all of her shots!

[SlitherinSisters]

I have a solution!

Buy a big jolly candy red fire engine and have it follow you around town, and everytime someone wants to debate ear cropping with you, you have them drink from the fire hose.

I have it on good authority that a fully charged hose can wash a whole pack of human beings 20-30 feet down the street and it will also give them a moment of pause.

That is my plan and I believe it will work.

I missed this. Even though that sounds like a fantastic plan, I'm afraid I don't have the money for one of those!

[pillowtalk6188]

just ask them if their boys are circumcized. and thats their KID. you can do whatever you want to your dog, the vet wouldn't do it if it wasn't humane.

[pillowtalk6188]

i also know of a great dane that HAD to have his tail taken off because the weight and the momentum of his tale wagging on the wall would make it bleed. do whatever the hell you want, your not abusing anything.

[wolfy-hound]

Dewclaws can easily be torn off(especially when they are 'dangling' dewclaws) accidentally. They also can become ingrown, as the dewclaw doesn't usually get worn down, because they don't touch the ground. Coated breeds often have dewclaws get caught up in brushes or combs and yanked loose, or partially loose.
That's the main reasons behind dewclaw removal, although there are a couple breeds that require dewclaws to be present to be shown in AKC.

[Vacado]

Ear cropping and dew claw removal did originally serve a purpose back when our breeds were actually working dogs, performing the duties they were bred for. Large floppy ears were not intimidating, easy for other dogs or prey to grab and tear, and more likely to get snagged in brush. Long tails are also easy for prey or other dogs to grab in fights. Dew claws can get snagged and ripped off in brush during a hunt.

Most dogs now no longer work, but instead are our loving companions. They don't necessarily have a "need" for any of these procedures to be done (unless you're illegally fighting your dogs, using them for protection, or if you hunt in nasty brush), but it is part of the look those dogs were bred into. I think as long as it is done humanely, there should be no laws against these historical dog alterations. What's the difference between taking a dogs testicles or dew claws and taking its tail or parts of its ears? Removing body parts is removing body parts as far as I'm concerned, whether it's done for aesthetics or otherwise.

Pillow you bring up a good point about the danes. I'm a huge fan of danes and have seen several who needed partial or full tail docking because they kept getting "happy tail" and breaking it on things!

Floppy ears that hug the head do get dirtier. All the wild canids I can think of have ears that perk up, not flop down, so obviously they don't get too dirty. The hairs in the ears help keep out debris, and the open design allows them to clean their ears a bit and shake out the gunk. It also allows for better air flow to cut down on moisture buildup. I had a shar-pei as my last dog and his ears were tiny and held tightly against his head (modifications for their fighting heritage). He couldn't shake gunk out of his ears, and it was very hard for him to dig around in his ear with his foot as I've seen so many other dogs do. He frequently got infections in his ears and we had to clean out gobs of dirt and gunk every month or so. It just got trapped in there by his ears.

Now we have a natural dobie mix and though we sometimes wish she had her tail and ears done, we think she's goofy and adorable anyways. When I get my dane puppy I'll probably get its ears done. To me, they just look better that way (not that I'd turn down an uncropped dane, hehe

v

[danimal]

i also know of a great dane that HAD to have his tail taken off because the weight and the momentum of his tale wagging on the wall would make it bleed. do whatever the hell you want, your not abusing anything.

My Dane's tail is a literal weapon. It wags with tremendous velocity and right at "family jewel" height. She's dropped me to my knees more than once when I haven't paid attention. Not fun. She has a small wound on the tip that she got from banging it into things while furiously wagging it. It's taken a few months to heal, finally, I started putting duct tape on it when I knew people were coming to visit, and it's finally healing up.

We didn't get her ears cropped, because we think the floppy ears give her more personality. I don't mind the cropped ears on the males though. But for the females, it makes them look more feminine. (if a 35" tall, 130lb dog could EVER be feminine! ) The breed standard for Danes is they can either be cropped or not.

Isn't this a ton of personality?


For breeds like dobies, rotties, and other dogs that have a breed standard that requires cropping and docking, I don't have a problem with it as long as it's done properly and with as little pain as possible. What gets me is the home crop jobs you see on pit bulls, where the ears are almost cut off.

[dizzy]

I'm rediculously in love with Rots and when I get one I do plan to have the tail cropped, which suprises most people that I know. As I'm an animal lover they all assume I would think it cruel.

I say the same thing, that it's selfish on my part but it just looks better and I don't want that massive tail beating on my anemic little legs. I have enough mystery bruises already.

To be honest I know nothing about how it's done though, so I do hope that it is done humanely.

The only dog I've had so far was a german shepard and I wish his damn tail had been cut off. lol

[Typical_08]

I'm rediculously in love with Rots and when I get one I do plan to have the tail cropped, which suprises most people that I know. As I'm an animal lover they all assume I would think it cruel.

I say the same thing, that it's selfish on my part but it just looks better and I don't want that massive tail beating on my anemic little legs. I have enough mystery bruises already.

To be honest I know nothing about how it's done though, so I do hope that it is done humanely.

The only dog I've had so far was a german shepard and I wish his damn tail had been cut off. lol

http://www.vet4petz.com/articles/cosmetic_surgery.htm

Docking Your Dog's Tail

This procedure is typically done on puppies between 3 and 5 days of age. No anesthetic is involved, and the tails are docked to an appropriate length for the breed. Some of the breeds normally docked include the Rottweiler, Doberman pincer, Boxer, Schnauzer, Miniature pincer, Toy Fox Terrier (amongst other terrier breeds), Corgi, Poodle, and Sckipperke to name a few.

This procedure is much preferred done while the puppies are less than a week of age. Afterwards, the puppy has to wait until it is of age appropriate for anesthesia, which is much more involving a procedure, with a much longer healing process. There is also associated pain with the procedure when done on an older animal, and complications include bleeding, premature stitch removal by the dog, poor healing of the area, and more chances for scarring to occur.

Unless the dog is being utilized for show purposes in the conformation ring, tail docking is best left undone if beyond the age of 5-7 days.

The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) has recently made a statement with regards to cosmetic tail docking in the dog. Essentially, and ultimately the AVMA would like to see this type of cosmetic procedure discontinued for cosmetic purposes only.

[dsirkle]

I prefer the cropped and docked look and in fact own such a Doberman. My Veterinarian recently mentioned to me that the American Veterinary Association just officially took a position against cropping and docking and told me that it would be much harder to find a Vet to do this in the future. Amazingly cropping and docking has been illegal in Germany for several years now and because possessing such a dog is legal Germans are having this done in neighboring Countries. I would just tell the whiners and complainers that the breeder already had the whole litter done before you ever saw your puppy. Dobermans, German Shepherd dogs and some others (not including pit bulls) are in fact more likely to bite a stranger than most other breeds and you must be careful about that. They don't bite people that they are familiar with, but if there is no person there for them to take a cue from to greet a stranger and the dog must make the call it will usually take a protective stance against allowing a stranger access to the home area. It wouldn't be a good idea to leave such a breed unattended and loose.