RarePythons Stay Or Go, You Choose

[stevenkeogh]

I wish my lawn was emo, then it would cut itself.
-Steven

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Peace Out.

[Peter Williams]

Leave.

[JLC]

I know I'm a little late weighing in on this thread...and normally I don't like to poke a hornet's nest after it's calmed down. But there are some issues here that I feel very strongly about addressing. This will probably be a somewhat long and "lecture-y" read...so go ahead and stop now if you don't feel up to it. I don't even know if Chris is still reading this thread...but if he is, this is to him....as well as to any other who thinks they can just jump into the Ball Python "game" without a shred of knowledge, background, or credibility.

First, I want to address some VERY glaring inconsistencies and outright lies in your statements, Chris.

Thanks for the advise..I joined this forum knowing full well I can't advertise on it, but rather just partake in some learning, sharing, and I was hoping friendly discussion as the header implies "friendliest online herp community".

You did NOT join here knowing you could not advertise. You joined here so you COULD advertise. And that is exactly what you tried to do the day you signed up. When the connection was made to the BOI threads and your seriously questionable businesses and ethics, your ad was pulled and you were informed about why.

Only later did you come back and ask if you could still participate on the site, even though you were barred from advertising. I said you could, but I also warned you that you would be under the same sort of scrutiny that you found at Fauna. Not because we're "mean" or out to get anyone. But because your own words and actions beg the questions from anyone with a hint of intelligence and a shred of decency.

Stuff like this, for instance:

I've never really gotten into other reptiles, and originally got into BP's for the money, but I've really gotten into the hobby and truly enjoy them.

Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second. I do not love the animals like some claiming to give 5 kisses before a shipment, but I'm not hosing anyone either.

At least you were honest at Fauna when you said you were just in it for the money you thought you could make. When you found out that philosophy was deeply frowned upon, you tried to backpeddle here and tried to sound like you actually liked the animals. But it didn't take long for that to break down as well and you reverted to your original statements about money-first and animals-second. And not just second....but a "distant" second at that.

These are living, breathing, feeling creatures. Not boxes of shoes, or trading cards, or even shady boxes intended to be used for illegal purposes. I'm sure you'll find others of your ilk out there who are into the reptile world simply for the money they can get out of it. Maybe you guys need to create your own site where you can pat each other on the back at how cleverly you pull the wool over some newbies eyes....trade and market amongst yourselves....and leave the rest of the 99% of the reptile community out of it because we LOVE the animals. We're here because we love them. And you will never get that or understand it....and therefore will always be butting heads with the rest of us.

It's not a matter of whether or not you are liked as a person. It's your philosophies, motivations, and practices that are being "attacked" and questioned. The people who question are the ones who spend years and years educating themselves and learning about the animals they have chosen to care for. And yes, even make money from. There's nothing wrong with making money doing something you love to do. But if you don't love it....if you don't love the animals....how can any of us trust that your animals are well cared for? It takes a LOT of work to maintain a collection large enough to turn a real profit on. It's a full-time job that rarely turns out a full-time income. So what makes any of us think you would actually take proper care of animals you don't even seem to like very much?

And if you don't love them...aren't fascinated by them....how on earth do you expect to learn anything about them? It takes a tremendous amount of study...in books, online, and seeing them in person, as well as years of hands-on experience....to learn all you should know to run a reputable breeding (or even trading/flipping) business. At this point, you don't even know enough to flip someone else's collection....how in the world would anyone trust you to suddenly know enough to import and classify morphs or know what your breeding pairings will actually produce?

All that you've said and done up to this point....all the "answers" you try to give to the questions you choose to answer (a LOT of questions also go completely ignored...don't think people don't notice that)......all of this can only lead to two conclusions:

1. Giving you a huge benefit of the doubt that you have not really earned....one might think that you're a sincere guy who doesn't want to scam anyone intentionally, but have found yourself up to your neck in ball pythons that you need to sell....but can't be bothered to actually learn anything about because you don't really care....you just need to get rid of them and will say whatever it takes to get people to believe you're a decent guy...

OR

2. You're nothing but a scammer who has found himself stuck with hundreds (or thousands???) of ball pythons worth a tiny fraction of what you claim and you'll say or do anything it takes to recoup some of your investment.

Either way, there are very few options for you to go forward with. If #2 is true....then do, please, tuck tail and go away. If #1 is true...then resign yourself to actually learn how to CARE for the animals you have....sit back and watch and learn and be patient....and maybe in a few years, you'll actually be ready to market some.

[anendeloflorien]

Amen to that ^^^ Judy. The fact alone that he says simply

"Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second"

is a slap in the face to those of us who keep and care for these animals because we LOVE them and are fascinated by them. He thought he could make a quick buck buying a bunch of WC gravids and pawning off the babies, well guess what buddy? It doesn't quite work like that. Most of the people that actually make it as a business in this industry have spent years building their reputation and learning all that they can about the animals they keep and the customers who they strive to take care of. You obviously have not done any of that.
This thread and your poll is IMO just a pathetic attempt to get everyone off your back and I think you should be ashamed.

SEE YA!

[sg1trogdor]

I know I'm a little late weighing in on this thread...and normally I don't like to poke a hornet's nest after it's calmed down. But there are some issues here that I feel very strongly about addressing. This will probably be a somewhat long and "lecture-y" read...so go ahead and stop now if you don't feel up to it. I don't even know if Chris is still reading this thread...but if he is, this is to him....as well as to any other who thinks they can just jump into the Ball Python "game" without a shred of knowledge, background, or credibility.

First, I want to address some VERY glaring inconsistencies and outright lies in your statements, Chris.



You did NOT join here knowing you could not advertise. You joined here so you COULD advertise. And that is exactly what you tried to do the day you signed up. When the connection was made to the BOI threads and your seriously questionable businesses and ethics, your ad was pulled and you were informed about why.

Only later did you come back and ask if you could still participate on the site, even though you were barred from advertising. I said you could, but I also warned you that you would be under the same sort of scrutiny that you found at Fauna. Not because we're "mean" or out to get anyone. But because your own words and actions beg the questions from anyone with a hint of intelligence and a shred of decency.

Stuff like this, for instance:





At least you were honest at Fauna when you said you were just in it for the money you thought you could make. When you found out that philosophy was deeply frowned upon, you tried to backpeddle here and tried to sound like you actually liked the animals. But it didn't take long for that to break down as well and you reverted to your original statements about money-first and animals-second. And not just second....but a "distant" second at that.

These are living, breathing, feeling creatures. Not boxes of shoes, or trading cards, or even shady boxes intended to be used for illegal purposes. I'm sure you'll find others of your ilk out there who are into the reptile world simply for the money they can get out of it. Maybe you guys need to create your own site where you can pat each other on the back at how cleverly you pull the wool over some newbies eyes....trade and market amongst yourselves....and leave the rest of the 99% of the reptile community out of it because we LOVE the animals. We're here because we love them. And you will never get that or understand it....and therefore will always be butting heads with the rest of us.

It's not a matter of whether or not you are liked as a person. It's your philosophies, motivations, and practices that are being "attacked" and questioned. The people who question are the ones who spend years and years educating themselves and learning about the animals they have chosen to care for. And yes, even make money from. There's nothing wrong with making money doing something you love to do. But if you don't love it....if you don't love the animals....how can any of us trust that your animals are well cared for? It takes a LOT of work to maintain a collection large enough to turn a real profit on. It's a full-time job that rarely turns out a full-time income. So what makes any of us think you would actually take proper care of animals you don't even seem to like very much?

And if you don't love them...aren't fascinated by them....how on earth do you expect to learn anything about them? It takes a tremendous amount of study...in books, online, and seeing them in person, as well as years of hands-on experience....to learn all you should know to run a reputable breeding (or even trading/flipping) business. At this point, you don't even know enough to flip someone else's collection....how in the world would anyone trust you to suddenly know enough to import and classify morphs or know what your breeding pairings will actually produce?

All that you've said and done up to this point....all the "answers" you try to give to the questions you choose to answer (a LOT of questions also go completely ignored...don't think people don't notice that)......all of this can only lead to two conclusions:

1. Giving you a huge benefit of the doubt that you have not really earned....one might think that you're a sincere guy who doesn't want to scam anyone intentionally, but have found yourself up to your neck in ball pythons that you need to sell....but can't be bothered to actually learn anything about because you don't really care....you just need to get rid of them and will say whatever it takes to get people to believe you're a decent guy...

OR

2. You're nothing but a scammer who has found himself stuck with hundreds (or thousands???) of ball pythons worth a tiny fraction of what you claim and you'll say or do anything it takes to recoup some of your investment.

Either way, there are very few options for you to go forward with. If #2 is true....then do, please, tuck tail and go away. If #1 is true...then resign yourself to actually learn how to CARE for the animals you have....sit back and watch and learn and be patient....and maybe in a few years, you'll actually be ready to market some.

Very well said.

[Wh00h0069]

I don't care one way or the other if you leave or stay. I will say that I do not agree with your business practices; for example, selling captive hatched and wild caught. I will never do business with you.

[wilomn]

Judy, this clown is not an idiot, he's just narcissistic.

Over a year ago he was told the very same thing on fauna.

He opted then as now for a pity party instead.

That's why he's no longer welcome at Jelly Central.

Buy, sell, breed, flip, do whatever you want to make money in this business and damn all the neighsayers is my general motto BUT, you must know what you're doing.

Dude, LEARN anything and you'll be better off than you are now.

However, since you seem to shy away from the actual attainment of knowledge, I'd advise you, again, to move on.

You're not smart enough to realize that your ignorance is blatantly obvious. You're not dealing with stoners only here. Some of these folks can retain memories longer than a few minutes. You've given a plethora of memories that show you in a very bad light.

But you know this and I begin to repeat myself.

Just another friggin mosquito in the big picture, swatted, wounded, but refusing to die just yet.

Who's got that big can of Raid?

[pythontricker]

Who are you?

he is feces

[TheMolenater2]

14 posts and your asking if you should stay or leave? I haven't heard about you but the hobby and compassion for the animals should always come before the business.