False water cobra?

[wilomn]

got it.....

I would like to point out here, I have kept giant Mad. hogs. These are in the same area of danger to people as a FWC...in my opinion, for size and the decent toxicity of the venom. If you pay attention to what you are doing and do not let them get a good grab at you, you should be fine. There is a guy that got hit by a Mad. hog at a show and was rushed to ER do to the venom and his reaction to it. Rear-fanged are nothing to be taken lightly. People use to say the same thing as whats being said here about Boomslangs, then people died from the bites.

I would rather all be informed going in that there is a risk, be it small or large, to keeping ANY snake, rear-fanged are just in area of their own.

A full grown FWC could pack enough behind the bite to get some fang play in without chewing, keep that in mind as well.

As I stated before, they are really cool snakes and are fun to watch eat.

As a matter of curiosity and it's subsequent satisfaction, do you have any evidence of envenomation due to the Mad. Hognose bite? It is possible your friend merely panicked? Perhaps there was an allergic reaction.

Have you ever seen or do you know of any studies done on the venom of the Mad. Hognose?

As a counter to your statement above regarding size and venom comparison, have you ever put a full grown FWC next to a full grown Mad. Hognose? Sort of like comparing sapling pines to full grown Sequoias. Have you been bitten by both species or do you know anyone who has? Not do you know someone who knew a guy whose friend was bitten, but do you personally know someone, or two different someones even, in which envenomating bites occured?

I've never been fond of the Mad. Hognoses, thought they were on the ugly side, no offense intended to those who like them, so I have never kept them other than to resell them. I have talked to several people who love them and have done a bit of research, admittedly limited, but have seen nothing to support your statement equating FWC venom to that of the Mad. Hognose. Perhaps I missed it.

Thanks for your help.

[RichardA]

Hope your comparision of the size was leaning on the hog side, as mine were over 4 feet and only a few years old. Grown are 6 feet and heavy girth.

I put on my post....in my opinion based on my personal findings. True research into these snakes is just now being really looked into. My friend was standing next to the guy that got bit, and yes it was shock, as is ALL envenomations. Whether hemo or neuro the venom works by attacking one or the other, either your body reacts or it doesnt. Like I said there was a case right here where a 12 year old girl got bit by a copperhead and had no reaction other then mild swelling, and a friend gets hit and is in the er room for 3 days. Hemotoxins are present in Brown Recluse bites, yet my friend can get bit and have no reaction, while others are having skin graphs done to replace all the damage.

Boomslangs.....enough said, there were people saying that they are not very HOT for years, now you have people running from them do to the venom they have.

I am not saying that the FWC are a snake to be looked at like a true viper, but dont put down the venom they have. I laugh at a bee sting while others can die from it.

[wilomn]

Hope your comparision of the size was leaning on the hog side, as mine were over 4 feet and only a few years old. Grown are 6 feet and heavy girth.

I put on my post....in my opinion based on my personal findings. True research into these snakes is just now being really looked into. My friend was standing next to the guy that got bit, and yes it was shock, as is ALL envenomations. Whether hemo or neuro the venom works by attacking one or the other, either your body reacts or it doesnt. Like I said there was a case right here where a 12 year old girl got bit by a copperhead and had no reaction other then mild swelling, and a friend gets hit and is in the er room for 3 days. Hemotoxins are present in Brown Recluse bites, yet my friend can get bit and have no reaction, while others are having skin graphs done to replace all the damage.

Boomslangs.....enough said, there were people saying that they are not very HOT for years, now you have people running from them do to the venom they have.

I am not saying that the FWC are a snake to be looked at like a true viper, but dont put down the venom they have. I laugh at a bee sting while others can die from it.

I've had FWCs pushing 9 feet and 8 lbs. and as thick as my wrist. I'm not a small person.

I was NOT shocked when I was bitten by one of my FWCs. There goes THAT blanket statement.

Were you aware that appx. 25% of bites by venomous snakes are dry? Ever think that may have been why there was no reaction to the copperhead bite? A puncture wound will cause localized swelling. Two would cause more. Hmmmm, wonder if that's what happened?

Unless I'm mistaken, there is some difference between insect venoms and reptile venoms. I'm not positive that an allergic reaction to one would indicate a predisposition by a bite from the other being deleterious to the one bitten. It could be, but I'm not in possession of any knowledge to back that up.

Do you happen to have a picture of what your friend says is a brown recluse? If he is truly immune, I suspect there are some venom research facilities that would love to meet him.

[RichardA]

LOL

#1 Snakes cannot shut off the venom glands, therefore there are no "dry" bites all have some venom to them if the fangs are in play. The real thing that happens is the snake pulls back before the pressure is applied to the glands, that is what is considered a "dry" bite, even though any venom around the fang or within the tube/groove will be deposited into the victim.

#2 I understand you do not know who I am or what I did in the invert community for many years, believe me, we know what Brown Recluses are. There are facilities that have some of my specimens on display there.

You were bitten, showed no signs, so. Many people share your experience. If you were allergic you would have.

Impressive size for a FWC would like to see pics if you have them. Note that most will never see that size out of theirs, that is quite impressive.

[RichardA]

BTW, I totally understand what you are saying. I just dissagree. I have been in and around the venomous community for years and have friends they have been all over doing it.

So no disrespect meant toward you in any way.

[wilomn]

LOL

#1 Snakes cannot shut off the venom glands, therefore there are no "dry" bites all have some venom to them if the fangs are in play. The real thing that happens is the snake pulls back before the pressure is applied to the glands, that is what is considered a "dry" bite, even though any venom around the fang or within the tube/groove will be deposited into the victim.

#2 I understand you do not know who I am or what I did in the invert community for many years, believe me, we know what Brown Recluses are. There are facilities that have some of my specimens on display there.

You were bitten, showed no signs, so. Many people share your experience. If you were allergic you would have.

Impressive size for a FWC would like to see pics if you have them. Note that most will never see that size out of theirs, that is quite impressive.

You are correct, I have no clue who you are. I do know though, that you have not answered my question. Does you friend who was bitten by a brown recluse, and from what I infer, more than once, actually know that he was bitten by one, what a brown recluse looks like?

I have never heard a dry bite described in quite that manner.

I have always considered a DRY bite to be one free of venom, which being liquid, would negate the very Label itself.

Have you ever milked a hot snake?

In my gallery are some of the big FWCS I have had.

One last question, if my snakes can reach this size, and I am far from special, how is it you can state with such certainty that most who keep this species will never see that size?

[RichardA]

My friend who was bitten is a licensed science teacher and a member of many science realated groups, so he knows exactly what a brown recluse looks like, though most people have zero clue what they look like.

As far as my statement about size of FWC, most will not keep them long enough to ever see their full growth potential. You know that as well.

Milking snakes is pointless unless you are certified here. So I have no reason to milk any of mine. And I know where that line was headed. And yes venom will come out before the pressure is fully applied, that I have seen in person.

[wilomn]

My friend who was bitten is a licensed science teacher and a member of many science realated groups, so he knows exactly what a brown recluse looks like, though most people have zero clue what they look like.

As far as my statement about size of FWC, most will not keep them long enough to ever see their full growth potential. You know that as well.

Milking snakes is pointless unless you are certified here. So I have no reason to milk any of mine. And I know where that line was headed. And yes venom will come out before the pressure is fully applied, that I have seen in person.

Here's the problem with ASSuming.

I have no clue how long anyone will do anything. Do you share your crystal ball?

I have milked hots. I have had occasion where NO venom was forthcoming until pressure was applied to the venom glands.

Heh, just the opposite of what you ASSumed.

Now, about those dry bites, I wonder why they call them dry?

[RichardA]

Why are apartments called apartments?

[wilomn]

Why are apartments called apartments?

To whom do you address this apparently off topic yet possibly related to the subject at hand, question?

If it is to me, I must profess ignorance.