Rack tub sizes? AKA: Am I reading all this right?

[nixer]

oh yea i didnt mention that i have 50 balls here currently

[Valdyr]

Feeding live has nothing to do with striking, you need to do a little more research about this as well.
A BP are not more likely to bite or try to escape if place in a smaller enclosure.

If you own a snake long enough or you own enough of them sooner or later you will get tag.

Erm, I think you need to do your research, m'dear Deborah. Live and dead feeding, as well as WHERE you feed them (feeding tank opposed to their own cage), do factor in rather a lot as to whether or not your snake will bite you. Any snake. Period.

@Nixer: Even if I did have 50 balls, I couldn't see not giving them limited handling time. But then, I believe in snake breeding in the same way as most view canine breeding: breed violent canines, probably going to have a violent pup. Breed violent snakes, probably gonna have a violent clutch. That and if I were to start breeding, I would do it not only based on those oh-so-pretty colors, but also on whether or not the snake had a decent temperament. But that's just me.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Erm, I think you need to do your research, m'dear Deborah. Live and dead feeding, as well as WHERE you feed them (feeding tank opposed to their own cage), do factor in rather a lot as to whether or not your snake will bite you. Any snake. Period.

And you are basing that on your experience of having acquiring your first BP or is it based on the misinformation coming from your friends and/or a pet store specialist

[Valdyr]

And you are basing that on your experience of having acquiring your first BP or is it based on the misinformation coming from your friends and/or a pet store specialist

And... oh, I don't know. 5 years of handling large snakes and rattle snakes, a red tailed boa that I owned since I was 7, multiple corn and garter snakes... I could go on with the rest of my animal rescue work resume, if you prefer.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Well here are a few things that you apparently do know

Feeding a Ball Python in his enclosure will not make your BP more likely to strike or bite.

Feeding a Ball Python live will not make your BP more like to strike or bite.

Housing a Ball Python in a small enclosure does not make a BP more likely to strike bite or to escape.

You can believe otherwise and it is fine with me however like I said previously regarding the ORIGINAL subject there are various way to keep Ball Pythons as long as YOU meet their needs so there is no need for you to judge because people chose other options available to them.

[MiniJ83]

Deb, don't waste your breath. This person just got their first BP, how could they NOT be more knowledgeable than you?!?

I for one am waiting on the Valdyr Ball Python Care Guide.

[Microddot]

And... oh, I don't know. 5 years of handling large snakes and rattle snakes, a red tailed boa that I owned since I was 7, multiple corn and garter snakes... I could go on with the rest of my animal rescue work resume, if you prefer.

Did you handle your Rattlesnake the same as your corn?

Every type of snake is different.

Oh and Lenastorms has her balls in tanks and very nice setups. If you ask nicely she may let you see some pics.

[dr del]

Hi,

Erm, I think you need to do your research, m'dear Deborah. Live and dead feeding, as well as WHERE you feed them (feeding tank opposed to their own cage), do factor in rather a lot as to whether or not your snake will bite you. Any snake. Period.

Sorry but your not correct about that.

Any snake can bite you no matter where or what you feed it. How you feed it can have a marked effect on the likelyhood of that happening however.

I suspect you are talking about the old wives tale saying a snake fed in its tank will be more likely to bite when you reach in to clean etc? And that snakes fed live are more aggressive?

Neither one holds much water when you look carefully.

There are a few angles to consider about both these points - feeding in a dedicated enclosure means you are having to handle an animal that is either expecting to be fed or just has been. In some cases this can mean it is more excited and keyed up than normal. Feeding in its regular tank means reaching in to its tank where it is in the habit of being fed.

Now, snakes can learn the feeding routine fairly readily and they can certainly smell the difference between a human and a rat/ mouse - which means that, done correctly, they know when dinner is about to be served (this is why we pre-scent the area on feeding day) and when it is not.

I fed all my snakes just last night (Frozen/ Thawed ) - every one of them knew it was coming and not one of them bit me. I feed in their tubs dangled by hand ( yes I know it's not wise ) and I can put my hand into any tub and not get a feeding bite as long as I do not smell like a mouse or a rat. On any non-feeding day that is just as true.

I also know however that the babies are still full of wind and vinegar and will hiss up a storm and try and bite me if I don't go away.

Since they know what is food and what isn't then the state of the prey isn't really a relevant factor either once they know what to expect.

When I first came here I was co-habiting four adult royal pythons in a five foot by two foot by two foot vivarium and, therefore, seperating and feeding in seperate enclosures every week.

I didn't get bitten very often then either - in fact most bites we see are what we call SFE's (stupid feeding errors ). My last one was turning round to talk to someone thus moving the rat while she was striking making her miss. Entirely my fault.

I now keep all my adult ball pythons in three foot by two foot by seven inch tubs in a rack system and feed them all in their tubs - and I have to tell you my snakes definately seem happier than they were in the bigger enclusure crowded on top of one another.

To be honest - we really aren't the ones needing to do the research on this point.

@Nixer: Even if I did have 50 balls, I couldn't see not giving them limited handling time. But then, I believe in snake breeding in the same way as most view canine breeding: breed violent canines, probably going to have a violent pup. Breed violent snakes, probably gonna have a violent clutch. That and if I were to start breeding, I would do it not only based on those oh-so-pretty colors, but also on whether or not the snake had a decent temperament. But that's just me.

That's a point we have seen discussed on here before and, if memory serves, there are people trying to see if it holds true. It will be intresting to see the results in a couple of generations.

But ball pythons aren't known for being bad tempered either - most (but not all ) calm down really quickly once they are in a stress free environment and make wonderful snakes to handle.

**edit**

Yup - I spent so long writing this 5 other posts happened

**end edit**


dr del

[rabernet]

Erm, I think you need to do your research, m'dear Deborah. Live and dead feeding, as well as WHERE you feed them (feeding tank opposed to their own cage), do factor in rather a lot as to whether or not your snake will bite you. Any snake. Period.

Erm, I think maybe you might need to do your research. All 40+ of mine are fed live IN their enclosures, and none of them strike at me.

However, I wouldn't dare try to move any of them on feeding day to a separate enclosure - that WILL get you mistaken for food when all they are thinking about is food while you're moving them.

Just sayin.....

[Valdyr]

@MiniJ83: Shod off, don't come in here when I am trying to LEARN something and share my knowledge and insult me. Apparently everyone skipped the first part of my post stating that I meant no insult and I wanted input from people using something that, for now, seems ridiculous to me, but may seem less so later if someone can come in here and TELL me why its a good idea.

@ Dr. Del: Finally someone trying to rationally explain things to me instead of coming in here and saying that I am stupid and know jack about balls just because I am currently owning my first one.

I, personally, will always affirm that old wives tail because my red tail was much, much calmer when I switched her over to dead prey, as well as a lot of the other snakes I have worked with in the past. I realize that all snakes are different, but there are some things that you can generalize.

I do very similar things as you with feeding my snakes, but instead of using my hands, I use a set of soft silicon tongs to hold the rodent down in there. For my corns, for my boa, for everything that required prey larger than a cricket. And yes, I do realize that snakes will recognize feeding patterns; around here at the herp society, they recommend random feedings for snakes that tend to get snappy at feeding time.

Now, could you please, PLEASE, do what this thread was originally intended to do and give me YOUR thoughts on keeping snakes that reach 4-5 feet strictly in a 32 quart tank? I would like to hear ANYTHING rationalizing; I gave my opinions and thoughts on the matter, but I will listen for enlightenment. I've been around many herp societies, read some of the top care sheets on the internet, and everything I read told me to have a minimum length of 5 feet per tank, except for a few of the ones I discounted because the information was ridiculously vague.

I UNDERSTAND that in the wild these snakes will house themselves in termite dens and rodent burrows, but I view that as more of the equivalent of the HIDE I offer my snake, not the equivalent of his overall living environment. My snake's health is probably a lot like MY health. I know that if I am locked up in a small room for a long period of time, my mental and physical health will start to deteriorate. Maybe its not that way for ball pythons, but I have had no one, necessarily, tell me that this is so and WHY it is so.

I know that most of this thread has done little more than disappoint me; I hope there are breeders around that handle all their snakes regularly and know their habits and quirks, and know when they are healthy or not... I'm starting to think those Balls I saw at petsmart with the worker paying so very much attention to them might have been a better choice than my captive-bred that I got for my birthday, and I really hope there are breeders out there that do spend time with their snakes... if anyone still does that, I would love a PM or something with your website, so I can hopefully become a regular customer to them one of these days. No offense to the breeders that don't; after all, interaction, attitude, et cetera, might have nothing to do with offspring, but I'd rather take the safe side and go for a breeder that knows their animals. I prefer that MUCH over a prettily-decorated snake.

And anyone who can give a rational reply as to ANY of these questions, be it about the tank size and why its NOT a bad idea, and how offspring comes out from snakes of different dispositions (calm, violent, shy), then I would love to hear it. But I've had enough insult slinging, and after my response to MiniJ83, I will be ignoring anything that comes henceforth.