Symptoms?

[wilomn]

There are several species of hognoses.

The western does need heat IF you want it to be active during the winter months. They are fine without though HERE in So. Cal.

Your climate or typical indoor conditions may require artificial heat even in the warmer months.

There are few hard and fasts.

[whytepizza]

I've never heard of diagnosing an RI by poop colour.

One learns daily if one is not careful.

Have you ever watched any of the crots? The pit vipers? Those native to the Americas in particular?

I'd be willing to wager you haven't.

Take a look at a few, and that's just one genre, and then tell me if you still want to hold with your tongue flicking theory.

It's not 100%.

Yes, i have, but only Noth American and not every single species. When trying to get my biology degree with a focus on Forestry. We didn't start talking about venemous snakes until this past semester and the affects of the toxins and poisons from an organism or an enviroment so i'm not too positive of anything like a tongue flicker from venemous (or those you listed) because i do not have the hands on experience with that species. and like i said, the flicker is not 100% accurate, just a good tool to use.
Keep in mind, a pit viper and most native North American snakes like those you listed are not a Hognose, nor anything close to a Hognose. Corn snake, on the other hand is a similar (yet larger) rear fanged coulibrid and has many similarities with a hognose, but is still quite different. Also, there is a large difference between a Nasicus, Platirhinos, and Simus and cannot all be treated the same, yet they are all Heterodon. Copperheads look very similar to an eastern hognose upon first glance. That does not mean that you can treat a disease in a hognose the same as you would in a copperhead. Pygmy Rattlers have the similar dorsal spots as a western or plains hognose. Again, it does not mean that treating you hognose the way you would a pygmy rattler is correct.
Now, as for this sick hognose. Awesome that you don't feed him on the walnut shell, i didn't think you did but i'm sure we're just covering all bases :-) Keep in mind these guys are very resiliant to almost everything. I had one of mine eat a poisonous newt (thanks to my daughter) and she (the snake) nearly died, became very lethargic, etc. She recovered fully and is probably more active than before with a few force waterings. It's how they learn. If every time they got sick or ate something bad they died there wouldn't be any hognoses for us to adore!
The other guys are right about supplimental heat, but it depends on location, location, location. For me, i'm in PA and i need supplimental heat to make sure they stay nice and warm, especially for my southerns and mexicans, especially this time of year, and because they are near a window. My easterns and westerns don't need much heat, but i keep some on them just in case. If it gets too cold for a western (constantly below 65) and they aren't brumating they can get an RI from it but that is usually it it's around 50 constantly. But if your heats are good, even if they hit 50 at night (which i don't reccomend) but are up into the 80's during the day than i wouldn't worry too much.
Again, just keep an eye out and if it gets worse or something else seems odd talk to a vet. Keep us updated on the status! Has the yawning changed, stopped, or gotten worse?

[wilomn]

I missed the bulletin about corns being rear fanged. Could you post that info for me, I like to stay on top of things.

As far as the rest of your statements about the appearance of some species of snakes being similar even though they themselves are quite physiologically different, it's irrelevant.

So what if pygs look like hogs? So what if copperheads resemble other species? Will you now tell me that you treat a light skinned vegan differently than you would a dark skinned carnivore even if both were homo sapiens? Would you treat a chimp differently than you would an ape? They look similar yet are different.

You can treat many hots just like you would rear fanged, or even corn snakes when it comes to medicating.

When you learn some more, and not just how to string words together, even I can do that, then you would be more believable. For now, and really rutgers?, for now, you're not exactly batting 1000.

Tongue flick may well be a SINGLE factor used to determine whether or not an INDIVIDUAL snake is healthy or not and can in GENERAL be used as an observatory tool, but it does NOT indicate an RI.

I notice you made no mention of poop. Are we off the diagnosing RI by poop colour kick too?

Perhaps had you worded your initial attempt at assistance differently, not spoken in absolutes while being absolutely incorrect, then we would not be here with you defending yourself, poorly and me just trying to figure out when corns grew fangs.

[whytepizza]

I missed the bulletin about corns being rear fanged. Could you post that info for me, I like to stay on top of things.

As far as the rest of your statements about the appearance of some species of snakes being similar even though they themselves are quite physiologically different, it's irrelevant.

So what if pygs look like hogs? So what if copperheads resemble other species? Will you now tell me that you treat a light skinned vegan differently than you would a dark skinned carnivore even if both were homo sapiens? Would you treat a chimp differently than you would an ape? They look similar yet are different.

You can treat many hots just like you would rear fanged, or even corn snakes when it comes to medicating.

When you learn some more, and not just how to string words together, even I can do that, then you would be more believable. For now, and really rutgers?, for now, you're not exactly batting 1000.

Tongue flick may well be a SINGLE factor used to determine whether or not an INDIVIDUAL snake is healthy or not and can in GENERAL be used as an observatory tool, but it does NOT indicate an RI.

I notice you made no mention of poop. Are we off the diagnosing RI by poop colour kick too?

Perhaps had you worded your initial attempt at assistance differently, not spoken in absolutes while being absolutely incorrect, then we would not be here with you defending yourself, poorly and me just trying to figure out when corns grew fangs.

Alright, listen, I don't feel an importance to fight with you because you obviously won't listen no matter what i say. I am not attacking you personally yet you are attacking me, if you feel the need to prove me wrong show me documentation that proves what i am saying is wrong. I'd be more than happy to give you plenty of resources, text books, and writings that show what i am saying is right. Research it before you discredit it. If you can show me written evidence of something different i will eat my words (one in the hand is worth two in the bush). I never said you could tell if an animal had an RI through their feces, i said that the color might tell if it has some sickness, i never specified RI or otherwise.
The snakes you asked me about were venomous species. You asked if i researched them and i rebutted by telling you that you cannot compare those species to a hognose and that i am not knowledgeable about those species compared to a hognose. And yes, you would treat a chimp differently than an ape. For one thing they are different sizes, eat different foods, have different habits so their medications and symptoms would vary depending on the individual. It's the same with snakes and with humans! No two snakes are the same, no two people are the same. A vegan who complains of a stomach ache will not be treated for food salmonella poisoning because they would not have contact with it. Someone who likes to eat raw chicken or raw eggs on the other hand may. Treatment and analysis of a disease or sickness is solely by each individual. There are some general similarities within the species, i am just pointing out some in my previous posts.
As for the fangs. Bryan Grieg Fry did research to show that all coulibrids, except for of lampropeltis, pituophis, pantherophis are technically venomous. Any venomous animal has a means to pass the toxin onto another organism.
As for the Rutgers comments you keep making. Yes, Rutgers. Cook Campus which is Cook College. I currently do distance, satellite learning since the time i moved. The University is called: Cook College at Rutgers, School for Environmental and Biological Sciences. Are you going to ask to see my GPA, all my previous exams, the paperwork for my GI bill, and a letter of recommendation, too?
Now, this thread is for helping this person discover what is wrong with their individual snake. I do not like the fact that you are attacking me and my character without giving me any evidence to the contrary of my statements. If you feel the need to argue you are more than welcome to do it privately or start a thread which has a sole purpose of attacking and arguing with me. Heck, you can even entitle it "Why Whytepizza Doesn't Know Jack Crap About Snakes" since you're not outright saying it. I don't care. But this thread is for Ryan and to help him figure out what's wrong with his snake. Nothing said by either you nor I, recently, is of any consequence to his problem so i will ask politely that this argument be finished on a different thread.
Ryan, i am sorry for disrupting your thread. Please, accept my apologies.

[wilomn]

Alright, listen, I don't feel an importance to fight with you because you obviously won't listen no matter what i say. I am not attacking you personally yet you are attacking me, if you feel the need to prove me wrong show me documentation that proves what i am saying is wrong. I'd be more than happy to give you plenty of resources, text books, and writings that show what i am saying is right. Research it before you discredit it. If you can show me written evidence of something different i will eat my words (one in the hand is worth two in the bush). I never said you could tell if an animal had an RI through their feces, i said that the color might tell if it has some sickness, i never specified RI or otherwise.
The snakes you asked me about were venomous species. You asked if i researched them and i rebutted by telling you that you cannot compare those species to a hognose and that i am not knowledgeable about those species compared to a hognose. And yes, you would treat a chimp differently than an ape. For one thing they are different sizes, eat different foods, have different habits so their medications and symptoms would vary depending on the individual. It's the same with snakes and with humans! No two snakes are the same, no two people are the same. A vegan who complains of a stomach ache will not be treated for food salmonella poisoning because they would not have contact with it. Someone who likes to eat raw chicken or raw eggs on the other hand may. Treatment and analysis of a disease or sickness is solely by each individual. There are some general similarities within the species, i am just pointing out some in my previous posts.
As for the fangs. Bryan Grieg Fry did research to show that all coulibrids, except for of lampropeltis, pituophis, pantherophis are technically venomous. Any venomous animal has a means to pass the toxin onto another organism.
As for the Rutgers comments you keep making. Yes, Rutgers. Cook Campus which is Cook College. I currently do distance, satellite learning since the time i moved. The University is called: Cook College at Rutgers, School for Environmental and Biological Sciences. Are you going to ask to see my GPA, all my previous exams, the paperwork for my GI bill, and a letter of recommendation, too?
Now, this thread is for helping this person discover what is wrong with their individual snake. I do not like the fact that you are attacking me and my character without giving me any evidence to the contrary of my statements. If you feel the need to argue you are more than welcome to do it privately or start a thread which has a sole purpose of attacking and arguing with me. Heck, you can even entitle it "Why Whytepizza Doesn't Know Jack Crap About Snakes" since you're not outright saying it. I don't care. But this thread is for Ryan and to help him figure out what's wrong with his snake. Nothing said by either you nor I, recently, is of any consequence to his problem so i will ask politely that this argument be finished on a different thread.
Ryan, i am sorry for disrupting your thread. Please, accept my apologies.

LOL

Do you proof read what you post?

Do as you will, it's not my job to edumacate you, it's rutgers.

And REALLY? Rutgers?

Who'd a thought?

By the way, did you or did you not say that corns are rearfanged in one post then state in another that pantherophis is not venomous?

Can ya see why I'm skeptical of almost everything you post?

Site away, I'm always up for learning new REAL things.

[janeothejungle]

Okay, I was going to stay out of it but people who spout off like the wrote the book on herpetology, then say "hey I'm studying biology in college" just piss me off... Seriously? Would love to see those references to corns being rear-fanged.

You want some sources to actually educate yourself? Start with Harry W Greene. He DID write the books on herpetology. You might find one called "snakes: the evolution of mystery in nature" pretty frickin useful. I suggest you start with the section on venomous snakes and the morphology of fangs vs teeth.

The point is this. If you want to be reputable, know what you are talking about and back it up with legitimate sources or firsthand experience. Otherwise, sit there and bite your tongue.

~Kat

and yes, I have a BS in biology and am finishing a masters if you'd like to have a go at me, as well.

[wilomn]

Okay, I was going to stay out of it but people who spout off like the wrote the book on herpetology, then say "hey I'm studying biology in college" just piss me off... Seriously? Would love to see those references to corns being rear-fanged.

You want some sources to actually educate yourself? Start with Harry W Greene. He DID write the books on herpetology. You might find one called "snakes: the evolution of mystery in nature" pretty frickin useful. I suggest you start with the section on venomous snakes and the morphology of fangs vs teeth.

The point is this. If you want to be reputable, know what you are talking about and back it up with legitimate sources or firsthand experience. Otherwise, sit there and bite your tongue.

~Kat

and yes, I have a BS in biology and am finishing a masters if you'd like to have a go at me, as well.

Dang it Woman, don't step in front of me like that.

You're ruining my fun.

He's chasing his own tail right now, go sit down and study.

[janeothejungle]

Sorry. *slinks off to study






~Kat

[wilomn]

Sorry. *slinks off to study






~Kat

Oh, it's alright.

Gotta admire your spunk.

[Colin Vestrand]

corns aren't rear fanged or venomous... none of the Elaphe/Pantherophis/Pituophis are from what i've read. even some of the other colubrids that do have a Duvernois gland don't have enlarged rear maxillary teeth.
anyone else like reading scientific papers for fun or am i the only nerd in this thread?

*slinks off to study as well.............