Freakin' Rodents.......

[greghall]

just in general no offense but there are alot of advice people give on this site when they have no clue, they have one or two ball pythons,or a few rats & they are "experts" in breeding giving advice & so on.some of the stuff I read makes me laugh. Im not a expert by no means what works for me may not work for somebody else.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

just in general no offense but there are alot of advice people give on this site when they have no clue, they have one or two ball pythons,or a few rats & they are "experts" in breeding giving advice & so on.some of the stuff I read makes me laugh. Im not a expert by no means what works for me may not work for somebody else.

so who are you talking about in this thread???

[greghall]

NOBODY ON THIS THREAD JUST IN GENERAL,I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ON HERE ALL THE TIME IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD,JUST THE GERBIL THREAD GOT ME A LITTLE OFF(SEE IT IN FEEDERS)JUST MAKES ME LAUGH A LITTLE.DON'T WANT TO GET OFF TOPIC YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR WAY I HAVE MINE AS I READ MORE ON ASF's ARE REALLY DIFFERENT MY LINE IS REAL TAME & HARDLY EVER FIGHT OR CANNIBLIZE EACH OTHER.IT HELPS TO SHARE INFORMATION BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T REALLY KNOW IM STILL LEARNING THEIR HABITS ONLY ON MY SECOND GENERATION SO I READ ALL THIS STUFF TO & TAKE IN ALL THE OPINIONS THATS ALL.TRY TO HELP PEOPLE WITH MY SUCESS & LEARN ALSO FROM MY FAILURES.

[Wild Bill]

BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW?

Out of your statements, this is what I have a problem with. Do you know how many I own or have owned? It's a big assumption to think you do. I guarantee I've never kept "a few in aquariums". Have a nice day.

[littleindiangirl]

NOBODY ON THIS THREAD JUST IN GENERAL,I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE ON HERE ALL THE TIME IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS THREAD,JUST THE GERBIL THREAD GOT ME A LITTLE OFF(SEE IT IN FEEDERS)JUST MAKES ME LAUGH A LITTLE.DON'T WANT TO GET OFF TOPIC YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR WAY I HAVE MINE AS I READ MORE ON ASF's ARE REALLY DIFFERENT MY LINE IS REAL TAME & HARDLY EVER FIGHT OR CANNIBLIZE EACH OTHER.IT HELPS TO SHARE INFORMATION BUT IF YOU DON'T RAISE IN LARGE NUMBERS HOW DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T REALLY KNOW IM STILL LEARNING THEIR HABITS ONLY ON MY SECOND GENERATION SO I READ ALL THIS STUFF TO & TAKE IN ALL THE OPINIONS THATS ALL.TRY TO HELP PEOPLE WITH MY SUCESS & LEARN ALSO FROM MY FAILURES.

Someone needs a chill pill. We're all here to learn, and teach others to help avoid problems we've seen, read or experienced. Collective knowledge people! Build upon it!.

ASF's have been around for a while, and there are certain truths that are very easy to see when having the animals for a short amount of time.

They will all work as a community to help raise young. So your idea of them being nothing alike is a false statement. They are all similar in many ways. They are thought to be the evolutionary link between the true mice and the true rat having characteristics of both. If this statement is true then they are more closely related than you believe. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS!

This is all good, but like Mike pointed out (and I thought this too) it seemed like you assumed this thread was about domestic rats, because your advice was very good for domestic rats.

Behaviors of ASF's in regards to their groups is pretty steadfast and hard to break up or reintroduce new animals to, especially once the females have given birth.

I have not taken the time to give females a break from a litter to clear their system of hormones to see if it is possible to introduce any new animals to an already established colony, but it seems like it should work (in theory).

Males can sometimes be taken from a colony and put back into the gen pop of males, or given to new young females. I've done it to a few of my males, and put them back in gen pop, the results were pretty split. Some were aggressors, and some didn't care at all. They would often jump on the wheel after a small fight, I believe the physical exercise gets them out of the "red zone" from a fight or stress.

Females, will attack and kill any new animal while they have young. I do not know if this applies after they hit menopause while still in a group.

I have not tried to add any very young animals, but it also seems (from what I read) they will take the animal if the scent of their litter is on the new animal. This has been done with mice given to ASF's and nursed to an adult size and lived in harmony.


I have introduced virgin adults just fine when people say it can't be done, and I have also honestly not experienced ANY sort of aggression from my animals, or cannibalism. I have also been using plastic tubs the entire time, and none (including domestic rats) have ever chewed my tubs. I remember people telling me in the most enthusiastic ways that they would all escape!

Something is working in my colony. Something is working in others colonies. We are trying to build up from a basis of knowledge that doesn't need ego's and hurt feelings stuffing it up.

[Mitch21]

Good job littleindiangirl for getting us back on track!

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Verry well written connie.

I never have claimed to know it all. I have been corrected on MANY ocasions.

I have said it before and I will say it again. ASF's are a lot like gremlins, they are cute, and soft, and make the perfect feeder colonies... AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE BASIC RULES!

One of the most basic rules is that you don't seperate the pregnant moms. The fathers are excellent dads, and the back to back breeding is their natural way of life. The females will get bigger and stronger with every back to back litter. Does it mean it is impossible to do? No. Does it mean it shouldn't be attempted? IMHO absolutely. Learn from my experiences.

One of the first mistakes I made in the beginning was pulling out the male.... I took a male out of a 1.3 group and later reintroduced him. All seemed fine at first.... the next morning he was litterally ripped into about 4 pieces, and halfway eaten.

Another mistake I made in the beginning was with another 1.3 group. the females weren't pregnant with their first litters yet, and the male died unexpectedly. I threw a new male in with them. Again, everything looked fine at first. The next morning there was blood everywhere and he had a serious limp. They had litterally eaten off his scrotum.

When I see someone suggesting things that I have unfortunately learned first hand that you should never do, I am very quick to correct them. I am sorry to offend, but because of these out of the ordinary specific rules with ASF's, you really should learn about them before giving general rodent advice to an ASF question.

Greg,

1.) loose the caps.
2.) what would make you assume that some of the people you are talking to do not produce large numbers?

[RandyRemington]

Do your plastic tubs have any edges they can get a hold of? I've been using the cement mixing tubs which are smooth and had no problem. Maybe it's when keepers use sweater boxes with indentions in the bottom that they chew out. I do keep wood blocks in the tubs and they chew the heck out of them.

As far as low temp being a possible cause of baby death it sounds like that isn't proven. Is it generally agreed that they don't breed well under 70 deg F? My babies could have died from any number of reasons but since they didn't have any marks I was thinking too cool for newborns. I wonder if I hadn't found them when I did if they would have been eaten later. In some cases it might be hard to be sure if the parents killed them or just recycled them after they are dead.

I would think they would need a pretty constant milk supply as newborns so might be susceptible to any stress that interrupts that and with a first time mom there might also be timing issues with the start of milk production. Also, coming from warm areas the parents might not be as good at keeping babies warm as cooler temp rodents.

[greghall]

Bill & Mike was'nt talking about you or anybody on this post sorry you guys took it the wrong way no offense ment,sorry about the caps forget to turn off the lock.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

No offence taken. Thank you.

Please share whatever you have learned. We ALL still have lots to learn about these little devil dogs!