Is it legal to sell monitor lizards in pet stores?

[Skiploder]

People always argue the fact that monitors are venomous.....Dr. Fry does great research...however, I think he should have coined a new term instead of stating that monitors are venomous. I don't like to use the term venomous when talking about monitors. They are not venomous like rattlesnakes or cobras.....more like western hognose snakes. Not many people talk about hognoses as 'venomous'....

The venom of ANY monitor is not enough to kill a person.

However, the small amount of venom in a monitor bite does make a bite feel a little different than that of 'non-venomous' reptiles. I have been bitten by monitors numerous times. The only difference in 'feel' between a small monitor bite and a ball python bite is....the monitor bite bleeds more and is sore afterward. It has to do with the anticoagulant properties of the small amount of "venom" contained within their saliva.

Although the 'venom' amount is in extreamly small amounts with all monitors....the larger the monitor, the larger the bite. Of course large monitor bites will be bad.

A bite from a Komodo, water monitor, croc monitor, or any other larger monitor is going to be horrible with or without "venom"....In my opinion, there would be little difference between being bitten by a 6-7' long monitor than there is getting bit by a 6-7' alligator...they both bite hard and cause deep wounds. With monitors however, there is the small amount of 'venom' in their bite....it makes the wound bleed more and hurt more. Ask Dr. Fry. He has trouble using one of his hands due to a Lace monitor bite....his problems did not occur from any 'venom'....the physical bite damaged his hand so much that function was lost. They are BIG animals.

.....I really think that one day people will use Dr. Fry's research to impose some sort of legislation against monitor keepers....all because they were labeled 'venomous'.

Well then we can agree that while not as dangerous to humans as the venom from what we would consider a true "hot", they do contain glands that produce "bioactive secretions" that are used to immobilize their prey. It's still venom and while it's not as evolved as that of an elapid and the delivery system is much more primitive, it technically serves the same purpose.

Whether or not people decide to legislate restrictions of ownership of these animals based on the fact that they do produce a venom - albeit one of no significant consequence to an adult human - is a topic that deserves it's own thread.

[daniel1983]

Whether or not people decide to legislate restrictions of ownership of these animals based on the fact that they do produce a venom - albeit one of no significant consequence to an adult human - is a topic that deserves it's own thread.

I figured that since we were discussing monitor venom in a thread about the legality of selling monitors......discussing legislation concerning monitors would actually be more 'on topic'

All interesting conversation topics though. I like to talk monitors.

[Skiploder]

I figured that since we were discussing monitor venom in a thread about the legality of selling monitors......discussing legislation concerning monitors would actually be more 'on topic'

All interesting conversation topics though. I like to talk monitors.

I have mixed feelings, Daniel, on whether or not there should be legislation regarding the sale of some reptiles.

The number or nile, croc, water, etc. monitors being sold to people who have no business buying them is obscene, and efforts to educate people or preach ethics to dealers seems to be falling on deaf ears.

I for one, would not be upset in the least if I would be required to obtain a license to keep my boiga, my heterodon, my rufous or even my varanids - as far as I am concerned that little bit of inconvenience would be worth it if it kept these animals out of the hands of people who are unable to care for them.

I attended the Sacramento reptile show last month as was appalled to see what many people would consider reputable breeders selling retics and burms to anyone who had the cash on hand. It's become obvious to me that as this hobby has become more and more popular, we have been increasingly unable to promote proper ethics to retailers and proper education to consumers. As a result, we are attracting unwanted attention to our hobby.

[daniel1983]

I understand that point. The US has a problem though.....we seem to like to do an 'all or nothing' legislation on lots of thing.....

If reptile keeping regulations similar to those in some parts of Australia were established UNIFORMLY thoughout the US....I really would not have issue with it.

The treatment of animals at reptile shows and most pet stores makes me sick. A business's goal is to make money....alot of businesses do it at the cost of the animal.

Sadly monitors are not 'easy' reptiles to keep......some 90% of those imported die within their first year or so. Sad stuff.

[hoax]

Like this? http://www.rfadventures.com/images/A...nitor-bg-1.jpg

Or like this? http://www.socialteez.com/images/lizard.jpg

Or maybe this one? http://www.reptilevillage.net/crocmonitor.gif

The first one is the largest monitor common in the pet trade. They do get massive. They can be quite tame, but of course, they are individuals, so the one you saw may not have been.

Nile monitors have a rep for being flighty and defensive.

Croc monitors can be quite tame, but are insanely dangerous to your digits, as their razor-sharp teeth take no prisoners and sever tendons like butter.

Water monitors CAN make great pets, if you know what you're doing.
http://www.bayareareptiles.com/Monit...sianWater1.jpg

Trivia bit: The reason komodo dragons are so incredibly dangerous is not simply because of their tremendous size. One bite from a Komodo...even a captive, tame one...may kill you While not venomous, they might as well be. They've evolved a solution at least as effective, if not as immediate, as venom. Their mouths are loaded with specialized and incredibly virulent bacteria.
More than 57 different strains, both gram positive and gram negative. Immediate treatment with massive doses of antibiotics might save you...but it might not.
The Komodo has an excellent sense of smell. Once its prey begins to die of the virulent infection, it has no problem tracking it down, and devouring it once it's too weak to run any longer.

Even if Komodos weren't a CITES protected endangered species, they would quickly be banned from the pet trade for the tremendous and very real deadly danger they pose. Zookeepers are all very highly aware of this potential, and treat even dog-tame komodos with respect.

A rough experiment was recently shown on an Animal Planet program. The host took two nearly identical fresh steaks out of the fridge. He dribbled Komodo saliva on one, and spit on the other one.

He let them sit for 3 days.

The human-spit steak looked very little different from when he'd taken it out.

The Komodo-spit steak was shockingly decayed and deteriorated, half-eaten away by the hungry bacteria.

Komodos are of great interest because living in alliance with all those bacteria, they must have one hellacious immune system.

Actually they are venomous. I just watched a special on them and they have a slow acting venom. The venom gland is located in the bottom jaw and it secretes from the gum line that is part of the reason why they seem to drool all the time. I also thought they were not venomous but needless to say I was very surprised.