Assist feeding question

[tigerlily]

Okay I have had to resort to an assisted feed last night for one of my babies. It had only had two meals in 3 months, and was starting to look very thin. Since my mouse production is not up and going yet, and I only have access to f/t I resorted to the assist feed. I was so sure I was going to kill the poor thing. I have to say it was very stressful on both of us, but so far it has managed to keep the meal down and is still alive. Whew. Once I put the mouseling in it's mouth, and got the f/t far enough in that it couldn't shake it out, it laid like it was dead. Upside down and did not move! I watched very closely and it kept breathing, so I righted the baby and again no movement. It took quite awhile but FINALLY it started to swallow the meal. Is this normal for an assist feed?

Also should I go ahead and try again in another week, or do you guys wait longer due to the stress upon the baby? I'm hoping that the next feeding will see the baby eating on their own, but I'd like to have a contigancy plan.

[kc261]

That sounds really scary! I'm glad the snake finally swallowed the meal and seems to be keeping it down.

I have not yet needed to assist feed, so I can't help you. Hopefully some of the more experienced people will come along soon!

[Morphie]

so if he's all that thin and you're already assisting anyway, it's probably a good idea to assist-feed him regularly for a little while, perhaps two small meals at a time, and perhaps more closely spaced like every 4 or 5 days. When he's got enough fat reserves to go for a little longer, back off and try him on a live whatever after a couple weeks of letting him chill out.

I've been keeping a mojave alive since mid 07 this way - feeding enough to sustain so that i can back off and let him try again after some time to himself. Finally, FINALLY, last week he took a mouse by himself, after i'd long-since resigned to forcing him for the rest of his life.

It sounds like you did ok - just make sure that when you're doing it you're holding the neck firmly but not too tight with your whole hand except the fingers you use to support the head (so the neck is supported evenly and he can't twist it and hurt himself), and make sure the weight of the body is off the neck by holding it between your arm and body, or between your legs as you sit on the floor, but of course take care not to pull where you're holding his neck away from where you're holding his body. Just be gentle but firm and aware of what's going on with his body, and when you get it in and his mouth closed down on it, set him down and leave him alone until he's finished (it might take him a while - just wait). If he swallows it, try to get another one in right behind it (if you're using pinks or small meals) by sticking the head in there and feeding it in as the first one goes down. With any luck, he'll treat it like one really long pink and you won't have to fight him a second time.

At this point it's about getting him strong and fed enough to fast for a while so he can de-stress in preparation for his next attempt (try live next, and try rats *and* mice of appropriate size. If he rejects one, wait a couple days and try the next, and then attempt all the feeding tricks you can find (not in rapid succession, of course, wait at least a few days between each clever new idea) until you have to assist again to keep him stable)

[muddoc]

Christie,
I feel your pain (or stress rather), as I have 2 Caramels that I am assisting at the moment. The reaction of your snake sounds normal to me. I believe that they are just not sure what happened, and take a minute to figure out it's time to eat. I typically offer a live meal 7 days later, but wait at least 10-14 days before making another assisting attempt. This has worked well for me. I rarely have one that needs more than three assisst feedings, and have never had a snake need more than 5 assissts.

Hope that helps,

[jknudson]

Good job getting a meal in him Christie, I know how stressed you've been about your non-feeder eating. Sounds like you both had quite a trial on your hands, but he's in great care with you, so I'm sure he'll get to eating on his own in no time!

And Tim, excellent information as always, thank you for sharing!

[tigerlily]

Thank you so much for your input. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I think now that I have this first assist feed under my belt, that next time will go much better.

The squirmy little thing kept trying to kink it's neck, so I couldn't get the food down but I refused to let the little booger beat me. I would offer a live meal if I had one, but my rat production hit a major stall. I am trying to get a mouse colony established as well. Ugh, the things I won't do for my snakes....I'm resorting to stinky ole mice!

[WingedWolfPsion]

Here's what worked for me--I had a few slow starters this year.

I gave them about 6 weeks past their first shed to eat...after that, I started the assist-feeding. I didn't wait until they look thin or start to weaken. I used rat pinks--my theory is that I want these difficult boogers to be on rats from the start, that way they don't wind up being mousers.

I used pre-killed, but f/t would be fine too. Wet them down, gently insert them deep into the snake's throat--if you don't get them in there far enough--partway down the throat--the snake will just spit them out. Put the snake down in its bin, and stay very still and quiet. Some will spit the food out anyhow, and you'll have to try again. After 3 attempts fail at assist-feeding, I cut the head off the rat pinkie and force-feed the head. I only had to do that with one animal. (I had 3 slow starters out of 26).

I do the same thing again in 5 days. 5 days after the second assist-feed, I offer a live rat pink. If it's declined, they get another assist feed. With the exception of one stubborn hatchling, they all accepted the live rat pink. I think having food going through regularly stimulates their appetite. (That girl eventually took a rat fuzzy. She's now eaten twice voluntarily, but not twice in a row--we'll see how it goes next week, lol).

As long as you're gentle--remember to be careful with their jaws, and be sure their airway is clear--and you don't spend all day trying it, they will be fine. There is a lot of concern over how stressful assist-feeding is...and it IS stressful, and they can be exhausted afterward--if the hatchling is otherwise healthy, it won't really do them harm--they will start to put on weight, and get stronger. The major risk is when an animal is sick or debilitated for some reason--the stress can add to their illness and reduce their immune function.

Remember there are some folks who actually assist-feed hatchlings of other species for up to a year before the animals start feeding on their own--I recall an article in Reptiles magazine about someone raising taipans that way. Assist-feeding CAN be carried out for as long as it takes to get a baby going, and the vast majority of the time, if there isn't anything actually WRONG with them, they will go on to eat on their own. Don't let them get too thin, or to the point where they are debilitated, as that will make it harder for them to handle the assist or force-feeding.

[tigerlily]

Here's what worked for me--I had a few slow starters this year.

I gave them about 6 weeks past their first shed to eat...after that, I started the assist-feeding. I didn't wait until they look thin or start to weaken. I used rat pinks--my theory is that I want these difficult boogers to be on rats from the start, that way they don't wind up being mousers.

I used pre-killed, but f/t would be fine too. Wet them down, gently insert them deep into the snake's throat--if you don't get them in there far enough--partway down the throat--the snake will just spit them out. Put the snake down in its bin, and stay very still and quiet. Some will spit the food out anyhow, and you'll have to try again. After 3 attempts fail at assist-feeding, I cut the head off the rat pinkie and force-feed the head. I only had to do that with one animal. (I had 3 slow starters out of 26).

I do the same thing again in 5 days. 5 days after the second assist-feed, I offer a live rat pink. If it's declined, they get another assist feed. With the exception of one stubborn hatchling, they all accepted the live rat pink. I think having food going through regularly stimulates their appetite. (That girl eventually took a rat fuzzy. She's now eaten twice voluntarily, but not twice in a row--we'll see how it goes next week, lol).

As long as you're gentle--remember to be careful with their jaws, and be sure their airway is clear--and you don't spend all day trying it, they will be fine. There is a lot of concern over how stressful assist-feeding is...and it IS stressful, and they can be exhausted afterward--if the hatchling is otherwise healthy, it won't really do them harm--they will start to put on weight, and get stronger. The major risk is when an animal is sick or debilitated for some reason--the stress can add to their illness and reduce their immune function.

Remember there are some folks who actually assist-feed hatchlings of other species for up to a year before the animals start feeding on their own--I recall an article in Reptiles magazine about someone raising taipans that way. Assist-feeding CAN be carried out for as long as it takes to get a baby going, and the vast majority of the time, if there isn't anything actually WRONG with them, they will go on to eat on their own. Don't let them get too thin, or to the point where they are debilitated, as that will make it harder for them to handle the assist or force-feeding.

Thank you for such a detailed description of your methods. I really do appreciate all the help. I need all I can get.