Sick Rats

[littleindiangirl]

Jay, if you read the link I provided for you the answers are in it. We can't diagnose your rats and tell you if they are sick or not or will get sick. That's a vet's job. You've had losses across the board it seems lately and I'm at a loss to tell you anything more than I have already. Something is up in your colony and you need to start addressing it. Feeders or not, it's not fair to animals to die for no good reason.

The last time you posted about rats dying on Aug 10th I responded with this post...



http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=72792

My thoughts haven't changed much Jay. If you have sick and dying rats, from adult breeders down to new pinks then something is going on with the husbandry choices you are making. I'd think you'd be wise to address it as quickly as possible.

If that rat is suffering either seek vet care or humanely euthanize it. It's hard but you have to make these calls for the animal's sake.

I have to agree 100% with Jo. Just the amount of problems you have with rats this past year, I'm not sure what else we can tell you since it does seem to be the same thing over and over again.

[Jay_Bunny]

I really don't know what to say. I give my rats clean water, food, a clean enclosure, and on occasion, handling. I try and QT new rats. There have been no new rats added to the colony recently. The sick male was the most recent. He got sick so I moved him to his own enclosure. Solja seemed fine. I'm not a vet. I put him in with his father and the two of them have been fine together for the past month. Monk's rapid decline has been very recent, within the past week.

I'm not going to sit here and defend my husbandry tonight. What I need is advice on how to make him comfortable until I can get him to a vet tomorrow. The emergency vet couldn't help us even if they wanted to. The vet they have tonight does not work with small animals. The closest emergency vet is in northern, Va. (2 hours away). I just want him to be ok.

[littleindiangirl]

I really don't know what to say. I give my rats clean water, food, a clean enclosure, and on occasion, handling. I try and QT new rats. There have been no new rats added to the colony recently. The sick male was the most recent. He got sick so I moved him to his own enclosure. Solja seemed fine. I'm not a vet. I put him in with his father and the two of them have been fine together for the past month. Monk's rapid decline has been very recent, within the past week.

I'm not going to sit here and defend my husbandry tonight. What I need is advice on how to make him comfortable until I can get him to a vet tomorrow. The emergency vet couldn't help us even if they wanted to. The vet they have tonight does not work with small animals. The closest emergency vet is in northern, Va. (2 hours away). I just want him to be ok.

Rats are just like all other prey species. They hide all illness until it is just about too late and progressed very far.

If they've been together for a month, then it makes sense that you begin to see the outward signs of illness now.

Just... stop bringing in rats. You cant afford it in lost production or vet bills.

Keep him warm, well ventilated away from drafts. Give him soft food, and away from all the other rats.

[Jay_Bunny]

We are not bringing in any more rats. I wouldn't trust the store anyway. They have a new supplier and all the feeders come in sick, sneezing or with hairloss.

I'm actually out of any kind of supply for feeders since I won't buy from the store I usually use.

[Jay_Bunny]

We are going to make him a soft food he can eat. He is being given water by dropper. How often should I give him water?

Thanks for all your help. I'll let you all know how he fairs.

[littleindiangirl]

We are going to make him a soft food he can eat. He is being given water by dropper. How often should I give him water?

Thanks for all your help. I'll let you all know how he fairs.

Give him water as often as he'll take it. I'd offer every half an hour or so until you get an idea of what he can take in each time,

[Jay_Bunny]

We made a mix of this:

1 pkg wet cat food (its chunky style. Its all we have as far as wet food)
Couple tspns of cooked brown rice
Soaked lab block
crumbled dog biscuit (figured it can't hurt)
and some water

Its mixing right now. We are waiting for the lab block and dog biscuit to soak into the mix. We gave him a little piece of the cat food and he ate it really quickly. If we give him a piece of food, he will eat it on his own. I think I'm going to stay up with him tonight to make sure he is warm and hydrated.

[SatanicIntention]

It really sounds like he has an ear infection that has spread to his brain(can happen if it goes on long enough) or he has a pituitary tumor(very typical in males that are around a year old).

Either way, he will never be normal again. The infection has gone on long enough for him to become emaciated and dehydrated, and also for him to be rolling. This means his equilibrium is damaged.

What I've done is gotten a can of Hills a/d, mixed it with Ensure or the grocery store brand equivalent(no lactose) and the rats can get the needed calories and liquids from it without wasting energy eating.

I would get some injectable Baytril and give it to him orally(mix it in yogurt or whatever, or just squirt the dose in his mouth). It absorbs faster via the GI tract. You can also put it directly into the affected ear(1 drop) and massage it down in there. I would also get some antifungal ear drops too. My vet usually mixes miconazole, baytril and dexamethasone(steroid) as an ear solution when one of my animals has an ear infection. Beats that infectin to a pulp.

Ear infections in rats need to be caught early(excessive scratching of one ear, bloody discharge, odor from the ear, slight head tilt). Once it gets to where they are spinning, dehydrated and malnourished, then they usually won't be right again.

He does need fluids, so get him to drink whatever you can. Either some fruit flavored pedialite, ensure, watery yogurt, sugar water, things like that. Then get him to the vet as soon as you can. He'll need subcutaneous fluids(under the skin), antibiotics, and hopefully a steroid.

Myco is NOT contagious. AT ALL. Myco DOES NOT cause the infection. Mycoplasma is a bacteria that ALL rats have. It usually does not pose a problem unless the rat is SICK, STRESSED, or a COMBO of the two(just enunciating not yelling). If the rat is sick and stressed(bad choice of cage mates, new environment, poor environment, poor air quality, too drafty/cold, too hot, poor diet)for whatever reason, this will cause the Myco to deplete the immune system to where the rat gets a secondary infection. This secondary infection(respiratory is the usual symptom, but ear infections can also pop up) is what is the killer.

SO! What were those two boys housed in? If they were in a 10 gallon tank, that's why they are sick. I HATE tanks for rats, unless it's ONE very pregnant, or nursing mother with less-than-2-week-old babies. The ammonia builds up and regardless of how much you clean, they are breathing it. Ammonia = lung scarring = constant respiratory distress = slow painful death via asphyxiation.

[Jay_Bunny]

Monk and his son were being housed in a 20L tank. This is how I house rats, currently. I'm in the process of trying to get another rack built (I currently have one with only one functioning tub since the runners are not on)

10g: 1 pregnant/nursing mother, 2 1-2 month old rats.
20g Long: Up to 3 (no more) fully grown adult breeding rats, normally a 1.2 group. If younger, no more than 4.
Rack Tub: My rule is no more than 3, but I've never housed more than two to a tub so far.

I'm trying to think of a way to give them more ventilation than a tank can provide. I don't like tanks either but its all I have right now until I get my racks built.

Update: He had decided he doesn't want to eat any solid food at this point. BUT, he loves the "gravy" from his mixture. The "gravy" includes water, the gravy from the wet food, ground up dog biscuit, and tiny bits of lab block. He loves it and has downed 8ml of the liquid. We have made him a little nest in his bucket. Its a green bucket that we usually use to weigh the snakes. We lined the bottom with paper towel and gave him a clean shirt.

*Just thought I'd add. He peed on me. So he's taking in fluids ok.

[Jay_Bunny]

If we put him in a more secure location, do you think he'd be ok during the night without me giving him fluids. He's downed maybe about 4ml of water and 8ml of "gravy" and he peed once.