Interesting Craigslist ad

[ZinniaZ]

You're right, animals are aggressive. That's why they are animals. That's not even the issue. I've dealt with lots of aggressive animals, but there comes a point and time when you have to honestly say not only is the animal aggressive, but it is also dangerous to human life.

That is not what I am saying. I am saying that we label as aggression-- normal behavior in some animals. WE call it aggression because we are not managing the animal's care and handling. All animals should NOT be put down for aggression. Often a change in management and handling will FIX the so-called aggression.

There is a line for aggressive behavior. If an animal cannot be safely handled by an experienced, educated, well trained person SAFELY, then the animal may need to be euthanized. But I'd bet 90% of the 'aggressive' dogs are nto actually aggressive.

[CeraDigital]

If it was would you then be agreeable to euthanize it? How many people would it need to bite? What if they were invited guests in the guys house and the snake bit them? Would it then be ok to put it down? Because that's what they would do to a dog...

The scenarios might be different but the catalyst that effects the decision is the same. We're talking a potentially dangerous animal that can kill someone. Be it dog or snake. The only difference between the two is that a zoo might take a dangerous snake, but they sure the hell wouldn't take a dangerous dog, nor should they.

I'll tell you what...I have been bitten by more than my fair share of animals. My 17 foot female almost killed me lasy year when she got ahold of my thigh. Was she euthanized? No. Why? Because it is my responsibility as the keeper to follow all safety measures, and in the event something does happen, I am to understand that it is MY fault. These animals weren't asked to be brought into captivity. This is what separates an experienced giant keeper from a newb. Now please, what are your experiences with giant reptiles to be commenting in the way you are?...

[CeraDigital]

and not ONE of these quotes were rude nor mean toward the man.

YES they were. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say....but heh, kids know everything now a days, I guess.....

[littleindiangirl]

An animal is an animal is an animal. It doesn't matter what kind of animal it is. When it is a danger to PEOPLE not other animals, not itself, not plants but to PEOPLE then it needs to be put down. Period. There is absolutely NO room for discussion or debate on the matter. Don't agree? Then tell me why when there's any type of an animal that is known to show ANY kind of aggression towards humans animal control shows up and kills it. They don't stun it, they don't tranq it. They don't scare it off. They kill it.

Did you READ what you just wrote??? LOL

Now we have to put down all animals that are a danger to humans? Wow, we better get started, that's a mighty long list! Pretty much, everything.

But yes, shadow a person working for the SPCA or animal control. People do get bit, and a lot of rehabbers try to work with the animals (esp dogs) instead of immediately euthanizing.

Wild animals found in populated areas are often relocated. I can't think of one instance where it's an instant kill without attempts at capture.

There goes the idea of a large wild-caught specimen. It is an animal that simply isn't going to be domesticated. You can't take a risk with it. Put it down and move on. That's the only sane option. The guy who posted the ad clearly sounds like he knows what he was doing EXCEPT for the fact that he's trying to find it a home on Craig's List.

Sooo, now we have to put down all WC animals if they aren't domesticated? What snakes ARE domesticated???

And I don't know where you get this idea that dogs are expected not to harm anyone. They are still wild animals. It's buried, but set them loose away from people and watch how long it takes them to turn into beasts. Not long at all.

Do you expect your dog that lives with you to bite you at any moment? That's not what my dog was trained to do. He's a part of a pack mentality, and I'm the alpha.



You've really taken this off into another tangent that I really cannot apply any sort of logic to.

All I can say is heaven forbid your snakes, or any pet whatsoever tags you.

[Tosha_Mc]

That is not what I am saying. I am saying that we label as aggression-- normal behavior in some animals. WE call it aggression because we are not managing the animal's care and handling. All animals should NOT be put down for aggression. Often a change in management and handling will FIX the so-called aggression.

There is a line for aggressive behavior. If an animal cannot be safely handled by an experienced, educated, well trained person SAFELY, then the animal may need to be euthanized. But I'd bet 90% of the 'aggressive' dogs are nto actually aggressive.

Aggression in animals is basically any act that is meant to intimidate or injure that is not predatory.

If a dog has attacked a person without provocation then it is generally put down immediately -- however if an "aggressive" dog is seized or turned over to the humane society or a shelter -- it is usually given some time for socialization (if possible) before it is determined whether they are suitable for adoption or should be put down. TLC goes a long way -- but often times the behavior is so ingrained there is little that can be done and the limited amount of knowledgeable foster care, time and funds to work with these animals as well as the liability should something happen far outweighs the hope that maybe one day ....

Now turn that into a 20 foot snake and you've got even more issues weighing against it.

[bsd13]

I'll tell you what...I have been bitten by more than my fair share of animals. My 17 foot female almost killed me lasy year when she got ahold of my thigh. Was she euthanized? No. Why? Because it is my responsibility as the keeper to follow all safety measures, and in the event something does happen, I am to understand that it is MY fault. These animals weren't asked to be brought into captivity. This is what separates an experienced giant keeper from a newb. Now please, what are your experiences with giant reptiles to be commenting in the way you are?...

You missed the point. By a mile. What your animal does to YOU (or any other owner/keeper) isn't an issue. If you get killed by your snake and it is your own stupidity that does it "oh well". If however your animal is a danger to other people for whatever reason and you can't find it a suitable home it's time to put it down. If you can find an appropriate home, great! Don't put it down, there's no reason for it. But when your search has led you to the dregs of Craig's List I'd say your options have come pretty close to running out.

My experience comes from rehabilitating wild animals more than giant reptiles. I've had a run in with a few but never been concerned for my life with any snakes. I have however been on the wrong end of some teeth and claws one of which was a cougar that we had been rehabbing for almost 16 months from a cub.

Was it my fault I got attacked? Absolutely it was. Did I pay for it? Yeah I did. Did the animal pay for it? With it's life. And believe me it wasn't an easy choice to make but fact of the matter is that we had a supervisory board who recognized that the cat was aggressive and there was no way ANYONE could be expected to handle it and we couldn't take the chance that it wouldn't go right back into town among people.

I realize snakes and cats aren't the same thing. And I realize a cat is a lot more likely to be territorial, but you can't take the risk either way. That is irresponsible animal ownership. If I chose have a giant snake and it kills me, so what? But if it kills you then there is a problem.

[bsd13]

Did you READ what you just wrote??? LOL

I'll keep this short and sweet for you. Or at least I'll try.

Now we have to put down all animals that are a danger to humans?

Don't put words into my mouth or try to attribute a meaning that isn't there. I'll clarify for you.

Yes. We should put down ALL animals that are a danger to humans.

But wait, there's more too it than that. We should put down ALL individual animals that clearly show a trend of either aggression towards people and/or have maimed or killed a person. And don't start the "well what if my neighbors toy poodle bites me and I need a stitch?" because you know what I mean.

And thanks I've done my share of rehabbing. No need to shadow people but perhaps someone else would take you up on your suggestion it's a good experience.

As far as immediate kills. It actually happens quite a bit IF the animals is considered dangerous. Now I don't know about where your from and maybe you folks have a better, more humane way of doing things but where I've been any dangerous animal was killed on site. Dangerous not just to humans but to other animals (especially livestock) as well. So yeah it does happen, unfortunately.

Sooo, now we have to put down all WC animals if they aren't domesticated? What snakes ARE domesticated???

You're confused because you're reading something that isn't there. Nowhere did I even allude to doing such a thing. Even the wildest imagination can't find that in anything I've written here.

All I can say is heaven forbid your snakes, or any pet whatsoever tags you.

I get tagged all the time by my pets. So please point out where you've come up with the idea that I advocate putting an animal down for simply biting you. Thanks, because I obviously need to correct that misconception.

One question for you. Are there ANY circumstances you can see killing a snake (or any other animal) because it is known to be dangerous?

And no I don't expect my dog to attack or bite me. I do however respect the fact that it is an animal and just might do that for one reason or another. In the real world the alpha dog(s) are attacked all the time by the others in the pack who are trying to ascend the hierarchy

[SPJ]

No go. Called Rich. He has his hands full right now with a 12 foot rescue MAH conda and so he can't take in another animal.

One thing people seem to not grasp is the agressive behavior is pretty common with the large boids. You would not believe how many retics, afrocks, burms, condas that are out there that are just like this retic.
The reach in and pet it on the head type of retic is rare. That is not the norm. Just about any retic is going to go after you if you just reach in. Ever hear the term feeding response? Loosely translated that means the snake will try to rip you a new one as soon as you attempt to take it out.
Hooks, helpers, and respect for the snake are what is needed when dealing with these things.

Not everyone can or wants to deal with a snake that wants to kill you if it gets the chance but don't forget, even that "tame" burm can kill you if you drop your guard around it.

Putting it down because it is acting like a retic is not the way to handle it IMO and searching for a qualified new owner (like the guy is doing) is the right thing to do if he no longer wants the snake.

[littleindiangirl]

Now we have to put down all animals that are a danger to humans?

Don't put words into my mouth or try to attribute a meaning that isn't there. I'll clarify for you.

Yes. We should put down ALL animals that are a danger to humans.

But wait, there's more too it than that. We should put down ALL individual animals that clearly show a trend of either aggression towards people and/or have maimed or killed a person. And don't start the "well what if my neighbors toy poodle bites me and I need a stitch?" because you know what I mean.

And thanks I've done my share of rehabbing. No need to shadow people but perhaps someone else would take you up on your suggestion it's a good experience.

As far as immediate kills. It actually happens quite a bit IF the animals is considered dangerous. Now I don't know about where your from and maybe you folks have a better, more humane way of doing things but where I've been any dangerous animal was killed on site. Dangerous not just to humans but to other animals (especially livestock) as well. So yeah it does happen, unfortunately.

Well it's nice of you to elaborate, because your last posts sure did cast a black and white ruling. Now at least I know there are exceptions to your rules. How much farther does that gray banding go?

You're confused because you're reading something that isn't there. Nowhere did I even allude to doing such a thing. Even the wildest imagination can't find that in anything I've written here.

Yup, confused is the right word. Not much I can discern from your posts other than you are adding addendums. What you had written...

It is an animal that simply isn't going to be domesticated. You can't take a risk with it. Put it down and move on. That's the only sane option.

Made it pretty clear that any animal that can't be domesticated must be put down. Because "that's the only sane option."

I get tagged all the time by my pets. So please point out where you've come up with the idea that I advocate putting an animal down for simply biting you. Thanks, because I obviously need to correct that misconception.

From right here

When it is a danger to PEOPLE not other animals, not itself, not plants but to PEOPLE then it needs to be put down. Period. There is absolutely NO room for discussion or debate on the matter.

So you getting bit isn't a danger? But only when it's the owner? That is odd, your statements before said to ANY human. Glad you clarified that gray line as well...

One question for you. Are there ANY circumstances you can see killing a snake (or any other animal) because it is known to be dangerous?

And no I don't expect my dog to attack or bite me. I do however respect the fact that it is an animal and just might do that for one reason or another. In the real world the alpha dog(s) are attacked all the time by the others in the pack who are trying to ascend the hierarchy

So not only do you now state that animals that are dangerous to humans are not ALWAYS being aggressive, but that it is perhaps in their nature?

Can I envision any circumstances on killing a snake because of a perceived danger? Not at the present moment, but neither have I imagined all the circumstances to surround it. I do believe in other reasons to put down animals, but not because the animal is acting like an animal can and will.

So lets not confuse me any more, write what you mean to avoid me coming to my own conclusions.

[SPJ]

I get tagged all the time by my pets.

Out of curiosity, what animals have you been tagged by?

A large retic bite will require stiches and, as I have experienced, they throw coils as soon as they bite.
Try having a retic wrapping so you are pinned against a column on the metal frame holding the cages while biting into you.
Thankfully I was not alone at the time (it was too large IMO for me to go in the room without someone) and we got the snake off. This was a "tame out of the cage" retic that just decided he wanted to ignore the hook training and go after me halfway out of the cage.