Breeding WC females?

[Bruce Whitehead]

I was just wondering... I know that it is common knowledge that WC females do not breed... but there are lots of morphs that came from WC females and males... so obviously someone is making it work.

I was wondering if the WC females do not breed rationale, is based on gravid imported WC females? Or does it apply to virgin sub adults as well. I.e. If a female is imported prior to breeding, will it be easier/harder/the same to get her to breed when she is of age and up to weight?

Also, how do people get gravid WC femaes to breed again?

More interested in the first question, but the second one is of interest as well.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

[frankykeno]

Bruce, all I can comment on is our personal experience with our two WC adult females.

One we know was imported gravid, one we suspect likely was.

Saoirse, the unknown one, took a long, long time to rehab and after more than 2 years we are just finally turning the corner we wanted to see with her weightwise. She fasts from fall to spring each year which doesn't help and there is just nothing we've ever found that prevents this with her. She'll go this fall for breeding and we'll just have to see how she does.

Now Danu's another situation all together. We know she laid eggs in captivity after being brought in gravid, we know she never ate for the person who bought her, nor for the person he traded her to. She came to us very underweight and very stressed. It took awhile to get her de-stressed under very strictly managed conditions but allowing her that time did get her eating. Granted she will only take ASF's (and the VERY rare small rat) but she's eating up a storm and gaining weight like there's no tomorrow. She's at breeding weight now actually but with her build could use even more weight on her to make me comfortable.

I'm certainly no expert but I think in the end it's a case by case thing. With both Saoirse and Danu though we've learned that you just cannot hurry things. Any attempt to do so just always ended up with them retreating back into an almost dormant stage where they just ignored life. When we took it slow, let the snake's reactions guide us and paid very close attention to details, both of them came around.

You'd never believe that terrified Saoirse and snappy, defensive Danu are both totally at ease now with handling and you'd never know either of them grew to maturity in the wild.

[Sputnik]

I have bred 3 WC imported females, not sure who says they don't?

[Bruce Whitehead]

I have bred 3 WC imported females, not sure who says they don't?

MOST female wild-caught adult ball pythons NEVER breed in captivity.

http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_...hon_care_sheet

third paragraph from the end...

Bruce

[Bruce Whitehead]

You'd never believe that terrified Saoirse and snappy, defensive Danu are both totally at ease now with handling and you'd never know either of them grew to maturity in the wild.

Thanks for the response Jo.

As I mentioned to you earlier, I have the girls set up in their tubs. Trying to keep everything to a min with them.

Their hides are overflowing with aspen (amazing how much they can pack down isn't it?).

I have a strict hands off rule with them. I pop the hide to make sure we are good about every 4 days.

The reason I was curious about this thread... is I was at a reptile store near my work tonight, and the had a tank FULL of bps. I lost count at 14 heads.

They were stacked about four inches deep in the enclosure... all looked like sub-adults. Hey, but they were on SALE (that will always enrage me). I can only assume WCs.

It just got me to thinking...

As always, thanks for the words.

Bruce

[Bruce Whitehead]

Addendum:

Only a few people knew this, but I do have 2 WC females imported as gravids (they laid and then came into my collection).

Both these females are unresponsive and not engaged at this point. My priority is not to get them breeding but to have them engage at some point, and I realize that this will be a long commitment/process.

I guess seeing these sub-adults, and figuring that they may be passed off as CH, CB, just got me thinking about the timelines regarding WCs. And whether there is difference as to eventual breeding/feeding/engagement depending on when they were pulled from the wild.

Thanks for reading,
Bruce

[Sputnik]

MOST female wild-caught adult ball pythons NEVER breed in captivity.

http://www.vpi.com/publications/the_...hon_care_sheet

third paragraph from the end...

Bruce

I had 3 out of 4 breed and produce..... I guess my odds were better then most.

[NextWorldExotics]

I have worked with a lot of expensive W.C. females over the years (new blood morphs and unproven we brought in) I would say generally they are very hard to get breeding. Females under 800 grams that come in from Africa seem to breed fine (bush babies they are called they range from 200-800 grams)

The best success i have had with adults is, females that come in gravid and then lay eggs. They seem to feed much better and bounce back quickly. African rats are great if you have a finicky one. The trick is getting the to breed. Usually it takes a few years to get them going.

A friend of mine got a female Volta (huge ball python from a certain area) from Africa 3 yrs ago. She laid 17 eggs when she came in. She started feeding quickly and my friend tried to breed her the following season without success. I got her later that year and tried her the following season with the same results. This year i paid close attention to her, one night she was wrapped around her water bowl during the cooling and i put a male in immediately. they breed a few times over a few months and she just had her pre lay shed on 5/29 .

So they can breed you just have to be patient. I would highly recommend NOT getting them for breeders unless they are something special, since they usually take just as long (or longer) to breed, as a hatchling you can raise up.

Hope this helps
Jon

[lord jackel]

I had 3 out of 4 breed and produce..... I guess my odds were better then most.

I guess I have good odds too. I have 12 WC imports (all came in gravid and laid eggs)...8 took this year (the other 4 are still too small)....of the 8 - 6 have laid and I expect the other 2 will in the next month or so.

My personal opinion is it all has to do with how you set them up. My WC girls only eat live in the complete dark, live on moist cypress (higher humidity) and aren't messed with. They have been setup this way since getting here and all ate immediately after laying and for the most part haven't stopped...they never fast either.

Just can't mess with them.

[Sputnik]

So they can breed you just have to be patient. I would highly recommend NOT getting them for breeders unless they are something special, since they usually take just as long (or longer) to breed, as a hatchling you can raise up.

Hope this helps
Jon

I wouldn't recommend them either....