The REAL reason for dropping prices?

[nevohraalnavnoj]

What I didn't convey in my first e-mail is that it gets aggravating to think that you pay a guy $1000 for an animal to find that the guy you bought from drops his price faster than the market calls for. Then next year, when you produce some of said morph, you can't sell them because your original supplier is under cutting you. With all of that said, all I am saying is do your best to support the guys that help to stabilize the market, as they will be helping you in the long run. Sometimes it may cost you a bit more, but I guarantee you will appreciate it in the future.

I take no offense at anything that was posted, but rest assured that I have been around long enough to have watched the drastic changes in the market, and never expect to make my money back in the first year. All I have ever expected out of an investment in a project is to make my money back over the LIFE of the project, which is a very attainable goal with the Ball Python Market, even in this day and age.

Tim, I hope I didn't come off as cynical in my response. I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I have trouble crafting warm sounding text.

Just imagine how much the value of a new sports car drops the second you drive it off the lot! That's gotta make you feel better about snakes depreciating, right!?

JonV

[muddoc]

Tim, I hope I didn't come off as cynical in my response. I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I have trouble crafting warm sounding text.

Just imagine how much the value of a new sports car drops the second you drive it off the lot! That's gotta make you feel better about snakes depreciating, right!?

JonV

No cynicism detected at all. I just wanted to make sure that I clarified my BRIEF statement in my original post. Believe me, I have always been a big proponent of the Ball Python being a great investment, if you look at it in the right light.

[nevohraalnavnoj]

No cynicism detected at all. I just wanted to make sure that I clarified my BRIEF statement in my original post. Believe me, I have always been a big proponent of the Ball Python being a great investment, if you look at it in the right light.

Right on. They decrease in per-snake value, but increase in per-snake enjoyment the more you have them!

JonV

[jknudson]

Good point! I am finding something kind of unexpected about this, though.

All the babies I have had since near hatchling from other breeders are doing absolutely great, pounding rats like there's no tomorrow.

The larger/older snakes that I have picked up are largely a pain in my bum. They just don't seem to acclimate like the ones I've had longer. It would probably be easier if I fed live, however.

I'm going with an '08 pied male rather than '07 for this reason.

JonV

Maybe they're letting the older/larger snakes go for a reason? Spotty feeders, worn out or just plain poor breeders/producers.

I've dealt with the same thing. Bought two bigger girls thinking it would be nice to have some breeding action going on sooner than later, but they are VERY spotty with feeding, and aren't the most friendly things. And although they've been locking with my males since October, have had noticed some follicular development, but wouldn't suprise me if they didn't go.

So really, these types of larger girls aren't contributing to lowering prices, but the opposite. Low supply of eggs means I'm holding on to them all when/if they lay, and hatch!.

[wilomn]

Maybe they're letting the older/larger snakes go for a reason? Spotty feeders, worn out or just plain poor breeders/producers.

I've dealt with the same thing. Bought two bigger girls thinking it would be nice to have some breeding action going on sooner than later, but they are VERY spotty with feeding, and aren't the most friendly things. And although they've been locking with my males since October, have had noticed some follicular development, but wouldn't suprise me if they didn't go.

So really, these types of larger girls aren't contributing to lowering prices, but the opposite. Low supply of eggs means I'm holding on to them all when/if they lay, and hatch!.

There's an old saying that was going around years and years ago.

Whether you raise babies up to breed or get adult females from someone else, plan on at least two years before you see reproduction.

It seems to hold true more often than not, though I couldn't tell you why.

[jkobylka]

I think prices should be based on looks and I think thats where the industry will be headed... A lot is supply and demand right now but down the road(hopefully sooner than later) youll have the hyundais and the lexus's of snakes... The not so nice pastels will sell for 100$ but the really bright ones that keep their color should be priced higher... Theyll all breed for you, just like a car with get you from A to B, but theres a reason a lexus is double if not tripple a hyundai.

I like the sound of that....

I guess I should have made myself a bit more clear. I too have spent much more on ball pythons than they are worth today (i.e. $20,000 for our first Pin male). However, I am not crying about it, nor do I think that I am losing money on any project that I have bought into. In fact, the first year that my Pastel bred, he bred 4 females. None of those females took or produced eggs. Yet, I still know that he will breed for years to come. The same happened with my Pin male. He decided not to breed until he was 20 months old. I have not made my money back from that purchase, however, he has more offspring coming this year, and I would bet money that he is still producing in 5+ years.

What I didn't convey in my first post is that it gets aggravating to think that you pay a guy $1000 for an animal to find that the guy you bought from drops his price faster than the market calls for. Then next year, when you produce some of said morph, you can't sell them because your original supplier is under cutting you. With all of that said, all I am saying is do your best to support the guys that help to stabilize the market, as they will be helping you in the long run. Sometimes it may cost you a bit more, but I guarantee you will appreciate it in the future.

I take no offense at anything that was posted, but rest assured that I have been around long enough to have watched the drastic changes in the market, and never expect to make my money back in the first year. All I have ever expected out of an investment in a project is to make my money back over the LIFE of the project, which is a very attainable goal with the Ball Python Market, even in this day and age.

I must spread some reputation around before giving it back to you... but well put man!

[ctrlfreq]

Why are people selling 08s so cheap? I just saw fires for 700.

Well, mainly because all the $12k fire males from 2006 are now breeding and throwing 50% fire offspring. The morph market, and co-dominant traits specifically, adhere to an inverted bell curve, with high prices on the initial stock, bottoming out after 2 years or so, and then sky-rocketing again when the morph begins appearing in double- and triple-combo morphs.

[iluvboas17]

i believe that breeding animals should always be a hobby, a project on the side to POSSIBLY make some money off of. it should never be your main income. animals will breed when and IF they want to, you can never force them. if i have learned one thing from breeding, this is it. never, ever depend on your animals to breed. even if your females lay eggs, there is no guarantee that they will hatch, and if they do hatch, there is no guarantee that they will be healthy and live long lives, with proper care, most will live to adulthood, but this is not always the case. accidents happen, incubators break, something goes wrong with humidity, or whatever it may be that causes eggs not to hatch.

also when you think about breeding, you must think about your babies' futures. you cannot ethically just sell to any idiot who throws the cash at you. you have to think about the well-being of the baby after it goes home. YOU have to find suitable, knowledgeable homes for them to go to, because you bred them you are responsible for their welfare. the least important thing about breeding is the money, the most important thing is whether or not you can find good homes for the babies to go to. no good breeder wants to see one of their babies end up being abused or dumped off at a shelter, or set free when they get bored of them. be there after the purchase when the new owners have questions. you will earn yourself a VERY good rep just by being there to help throughout the snake's lifetime.

breed because you LOVE the snakes and to improve the bloodlines strive to product the strongest, healthiest animals that you can possibly produce. i bought from a small private breeder and couldnt be happier with my purchase, they are beautiful, very healthy animals that have given me NO problems. id rather support a small, ethical, GOOD breeder than one of the big breeders, the smaller ones give you the best customer service and have time to spend handling and observing each and every one of their animals their breeders are their beloved pets, not just breeders to pump out babies and make them some money. (not saying that some of the bigger breeders dont do this, just that when you breed on a smaller scale, obviously you have more time for each individual animal).

[yeahyeah]

My original post wasn't just about dropping prices. I just didn't understand why the first people to start selling 08s were selling them for so cheap. I assumed they were the first people selling 08s because I hadn't seen too many in the classifieds. It almost seemed to me like they were selling them cheaper just because they expected the price to go down. Apparently there are many other people selling 08s at shows and the prices reflect the market.

[ShawnT]

I got an email earlier today saying 08 Pastel Pairs - $150....thats extremely low