Sand or no sand?

[kc261]

http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/re...oAlbum181.html

Enough said

First let me make clear that I don't own a leo or any sort of gecko, and never have (yet). But my younger one is off and on in love with them, so I've been off & on reading up on them (yes, I know that counts for nothing).

Asides from what Wilomn has already pointed out... this is just one gecko... what I noticed when I looked at the above link is this:

The intestinal contents contained a sand marketed as "digestable" for reptiles.

Sounds like calci sand to me? Which everyone seems to agree is bad? So this example doesn't even seem to fit in to the debate about whether or not something like play sand is ok.

[ADEE]

I just dont understand why you wouldnt just buy a 12x12 tile and stick it at the bottom.. thats the exact dimensions of your current enclosure. So much easier, safer, nicer looking (imo) and wayyy easier to keep clean and sanitary. When you have sand you rarely get it all (used sand with beardeds) Furthermore, you have a baby-baby leo.. i just dont want to see anything happen to it, especially something that could be so easily avoided. Sand you have to replace, over time.. buy one 12x12 tile for what $3 bucks? and your set for life.

However, everyone is different and you have to decide what works best for you.. again Desiree, im just looking out for your animal. I would hate to hear it died or needed medical attention over something totally preventable. I certainly wouldnt steer you down the wrong road, especially on an animal i hand selected for you. (not suggesting anyone else would)

[Desiree]

Wow. I did not realize that this thread got so interesting.


Not only did I speak to the two employees who were working at hte reptile store, I did my research on it before I went to the reptile store, AND when I was there I read the book on Leo's. SatanicIntention it was not a matter of making the sale or not. We had already dropped 75 bucks into the place, what was another 10? She had her baby leo's on sand, and I had asked her about it. I highly doubt it was not a matter of she could care less about my animal, any person that does not give a hoot about animals should not be working in a reptile/animal store.

Not only do people here put their leos on sand, it is recomended in the "how to care for leo's" book. wilomn is prime example. She has has hundreds of leos on sand with out any issues. Its all a matter of hearing about horror stories. Of course people hear about the wonderful things there is to hear about having leos, or we would not all own them. Agreed? And of course with every good, comes the bad. There are stories of leos becoming impacted, vet stories, personal stories, breeders stories, you name it, its out there. People are more likely to spred the horror stories, then they are the good stories. Thats just how life is.

I understand there are people that do not agree with putting leos on sand. People are intitled to their opinions, thats what makes us human, but just because you think it is wrong, does not make it true.

[Desiree]

Ashley I can understand your anger/disbelief of me choosing to use sand. You set me up with everything, but on the other hand, it seems like you are acting like I have put sand in there, not reading up on it. That I am putting the leo in complete harms way. I have read up on it. I have. I know there are cases out there where leos get impacted, but there are millions of cases where they don't.

She likes the sand, she has dug herself a small hole under the hide away box, that she sleeps in.

[Beardedragon]

Actually, I disagree.

You have a picture of ONE lizard who was so stupid it felt a need to eat sand.

I have experience with HUNDREDS who WERE smart enough to NOT eat sand.

Hmmmmm, one and hundreds......

Yeah, enough said.

So your saying that as long as only a couple die its perfectly fine ?? To me thats not being a good owner if you think that way.What if your favorite gecko is the one to do it? Sand harbors bacteria like a sponge and is a pain to clean, I just do not see why people use it? Impaction happens over time, each little grain on their food slowly adds up, ive seen it plenty of times in leos and beardies. Now, if your happy that only a few LOVED pets are dieing from sand and as long as a few hundreds are doing fine, then so be it.

[ADEE]

my argument is there is a risk.. and as i told ou via IM its no different then getting into a car and not putting children in a carseat (much higher magnitude yes), its an unnessesary risk. There are other options to use besides sand.. there is no good reason, besides looks to use sand. if she wanted to make a burrow you could give her some paper towel under her hide and she would like it just as much. to me its about the animal.. i dont care how pretty the cage looks if it meets their ideals

thats my 0.02 im not going to say anything more, its your animal, your risk.

[atp151415]

Actually, I disagree.

You have a picture of ONE lizard who was so stupid it felt a need to eat sand.

I have experience with HUNDREDS who WERE smart enough to NOT eat sand.

Hmmmmm, one and hundreds......

Yeah, enough said.

whoa, i didnt know we could tell whose leos are smarter than others, haha

[ADEE]

whoa, i didnt know we could tell whose leos are smarter than others, haha

point well made!

[qiksilver]

point well made!

i disagree that was not a point well made.

I have been keeping and breeding leopards for 10 years and never lost a single one to impaction. Your very strong opinions go against my personal observations, so I am going to have to respectfully disagree with your preconceived notions, and say we'll have to leave it at that.

[daniel1983]

Most impactions occur for two reason.....the lizard swallows something larger than it can pass (i.e. a small pebble) or the lizard is not hydrated enough to pass the items.

A properly hydrated lizard can eat sand, dirt, clay.....and it will all just pass through the system.

A dehydrated lizard will eat sand, dirt or clay and have it turn into a brick in their gut. They eat sand, their mouth and throat moisten the sand, and their intestines suck the moisture out in an attempt to rehydrate the animal. It is like a brick manufacturing process inside the animal when they eat soil substrate while dehydrated. No wonder the animals die.

Young lizards are more prone to impaction because they are more prone to dehydration. I think the substrate plays a small part of the issue, but the quality of care the animal receives plays a bigger role.

If you do not have the skill to care for the animal while on a soil substrate....use something that is safe for YOU to use and try not to critize others that know what they are doing.