Culling

[littleindiangirl]

Or just not be bred.

It is possible to breed out certain bad genes, I have no idea whether or not one eyed is inherited or environmental, but anything is possible.

[wilomn]

So going by this thought process, the parents would have to be culled because you know they are carriers?

Carried out the the Nth degree, yes. Or sterilized. If you want a clean genepool, you must prevent contaminants from entering.

Remember, we are speaking in generalities here, not trying to force one point of view upon anyone else.

What I do may not be what you do. What you do may not be what I do. Opinions will vary.

[wilomn]

Or just not be bred.

It is possible to breed out certain bad genes, I have no idea whether or not one eyed is inherited or environmental, but anything is possible.

It's been proven genetic. The environmental angle was thrown out there when the first ones showed up and people tried to market them as being squished by the mother, having had surgery, improper incubation.....

The bottom line is, some of the first couple of generations of albino boas are prone to one eyed babies.

You can breed it out, sort of, by bringing in non albino blood and producing hets and possible hets then breeding them to get "healthy" albinos which you can then breed to other hets and possible hets.

The thing is, when albinos first came out, each snake was worth thousands of dollars. That's a lot of temptation that some could not pass up.

Since they couldn't pass up said temptation, that gene is more prevalent than had they culled.

[JASBALLS]

Carried out the the Nth degree, yes. Or sterilized. If you want a clean genepool, you must prevent contaminants from entering.

Remember, we are speaking in generalities here, not trying to force one point of view upon anyone else.

What I do may not be what you do. What you do may not be what I do. Opinions will vary.

Wes, If you read my post I said I think I know what happened. Would you give her another chance or just end it with the first clutch that came out like that? I did breed her again and got a few Real nice snakes, With none having any problems. Just asking for your opinion here..

[sg1trogdor]

This is a sad topic I couldn't/wouldn't. It would be very difficult for me. But I guess I understand it has to be done in some situations. Still very sad though.

[wilomn]

Wes, If you read my post I said I think I know what happened. Would you give her another chance or just end it with the first clutch that came out like that? I did breed her again and got a few Real nice snakes, With none having any problems. Just asking for your opinion here..

If I had any doubt about genetics being the sole cause of deformities I'd breed the animals again.

I would cull the defects though if I could not find homes where I was sure they would never be bred and we all know how hard that is.

[ama1997]

Same for the wobbly headed spiders. Cull the wobbly ones, the rest get stronger. I can see giving them one chance to determine if they are carriers, but why breed them when you know they are?

Hows that going to work when normal non wobbly headed spiders can produce wobbly headed spiders. Same with the spinning. Its been said by lots of people that breed spiders. They dont know why, but normal spider can produce messed up ones. Then messed up ones can produce normal spiders.

[darkbloodwyvern]

As far as how to cull, I've read in a few 'research animal protocall' papers that talk about humane culling. Cleanly breaking the neck, gassing with cO2 or euthenasia are scientifically the only proven "painless" methods for culling any verterbrate. And snakes are not good to gas because of how long they can hold their breath for. I've read that freezing them is supposed to be cruel and inhumane because no one has any idea if they can feel it.
Regarding the kinked albinos, are they born kinked? I really like the look of them, but the idea of buying one as a baby only to have it develop a kink sounds awful.

[muddoc]

As far as how to cull, I've read in a few 'research animal protocall' papers that talk about humane culling. Cleanly breaking the neck, gassing with cO2 or euthenasia are scientifically the only proven "painless" methods for culling any verterbrate. And snakes are not good to gas because of how long they can hold their breath for. I've read that freezing them is supposed to be cruel and inhumane because no one has any idea if they can feel it.
Regarding the kinked albinos, are they born kinked? I really like the look of them, but the idea of buying one as a baby only to have it develop a kink sounds awful.

I have never heard of one that developed a kink. They are born with the kinks, and even very minor kinks can be felt as sson as they hatch. We run our fingers down the spine of every snake that we hatch, to ensure that there are no verticl or lateral kinks present. I pay special attention to any animals that we hatch that are related to Caramel Albinos (i.e. Caramels, Hets, poss. Hets or Double Hets of any kind). I have never sold an animal with a kink, but I do have a female caramel that has an almost unnoticeable lateral kink about 1/4 inch from her tail tip. Hopefully in about 2 years, I'll be able to see if she passes it on to her offspring. She will be bred to a Caramel male from a different line than what lines she is carrying. This will help determine if outcrossing helps any.

Also, I personally don't believe that it has been proven that kinking in Caramels is genetic, as I have heard many opinions about the kinking being a developemental issue during incubation, caused by a few different factors. But, that is a whole other topic.

[snakelady]

As far as how to cull, I've read in a few 'research animal protocall' papers that talk about humane culling. Cleanly breaking the neck, gassing with cO2 or euthenasia are scientifically the only proven "painless" methods for culling any verterbrate. And snakes are not good to gas because of how long they can hold their breath for. I've read that freezing them is supposed to be cruel and inhumane because no one has any idea if they can feel it.

I've heard that too. I've also heard that you should put them in the refrigerator first for a few hours. So that their systems "shut down" like in brumation. Then put them in the freezer after the frig.
Anyone do that?