Culling

[SatanicIntention]

It's been done with Iguanas and Beardeds(they have penes too), so why not..

I wouldn't have any issue with humanely euthanizing a suffering animal because of a congenital/genetic deformity. If it affected the quality of life in that the snake could not perform everyday functions with ease(ie: breathing comfortably, constricting, eating and swallowing prey, moving about to thermoregulate, having enough mental capacity to know to thermoregulate, moving about normally and without hitting inanimate objects, passing waste normally without blockage, organs fully functioning, etc). If the animal has a defect that can be repaired, such as a hernia, then it would be repaired and the snake observed for a few years.

If the animal had a severe enough kink in it's spine that did not allow for normal, everyday function, then yes, it would be euthanized. If the snake constantly contracted respiratory infections or wasn't thriving because of depressed immune system, then that animal would be euthanized.

Was that what you were asking?

[FloridaHogs]

Wes, you talked about the oned eyed boas and the kinks in the caramels. So by your reasoning, say in the boas, the siblings should have been culled as well?

[wilomn]

Wes, you talked about the oned eyed boas and the kinks in the caramels. So by your reasoning, say in the boas, the siblings should have been culled as well?

In a perfect world, yes. However, knowing the little I do about genetics, there is a 50-50 chance that normal appearing animals do not have the genetic predisposition to throw one eyed babies. Those I would give the chance to have babies. If they then threw one eyed babies, no more breeding.

Knowing people as I do, euthanizing would be only way to gaurentee no further breeding. Adoption would have to be up to the breeder who had the gene in his stock.

Same with sibs of the kinked caramels. They may or may not have the kink gene. If they breed strong normal spined babies, all the better. If they produce kinks, same as the boas.

Same for the wobbly headed spiders. Cull the wobbly ones, the rest get stronger. I can see giving them one chance to determine if they are carriers, but why breed them when you know they are?

These are not people (and some culling amongst humans would not be out of place either) no matter how much you may feel for them. They are animals that we do everything for, including introducing and inducing them to reproduce. We are responsible. In the wild I suspect most of the wobblers and one eyed guys and kinked individuals would not make it to maturity. Why reproduce deformities?

As far as quality of life goes, there is to much anthropomorphism in the reptile world. They do NOT feel the way we do, the do NOT react the way we do. The plain and simple is, we do NOT know if they are happy or healthy when deformed. All we truly know is that they CAN survive it.

Mere survival is not all there is and we simply cannot know how these creatures feel about it.

Of course, the opposite can also be argued since we do not know how they feel.

Logic dictates that less than perfect will not survive to contribute on its own.

So, for me, I'd cull if I wasn't absolutely positive that the animal in question would NEVER be bred.

[JASBALLS]

You are correct, however, the temptation to breed a morph or pattern is tremendous when you have limited individuals expressing the desired traits.

Look at the caramels with the kinks. I don't recall the guys name who had the video of them, I am terrible with names, but if you listen to him he never says he won't ever breed them.

The temptation is too much for whatever reason. Had he culled them, there would be NO possibility of their further contributing to an already weak genepool.

Same thing for the one eyed boas. kahl sold many many siblings without disclosing that little fact. Now lots of breeders have that defective gene. The good ones cull the one eyes and breed different adults next go round.

Sterilization would work as well, but I don't know of it being done with snakes.

What video would this be wes? Ralphs?? He said he wont breed them or sell them! They are his pets. He knows what belongs in the freezer Trust me!

Heather, I had a clutch in 04 that had I think 6 eggs. 5 came out with one eye each, hardly any bottom jaws. and wanting to feed as if they were normal ball pythons. That is why I gave them a chance. I wont make that mistake again. only the one made it.. I 'm pretty sure who and what caused it though. The dummy that kept some stuff here, took the eggs from Mom and sprayed them with water to seperate them to fit in the bin.. Spraying newly hatched eggs= Big no no!

[wilomn]

What video would this be wes? Ralphs?? He said he wont breed them or sell them! They are his pets. He knows what belongs in the freezer Trust me!

Heather, I had a clutch in 04 that had I think 6 eggs. 5 came out with one eye each, hardly any bottom jaws. and wanting to feed as if they were normal ball pythons. That is why I gave them a chance. I wont make that mistake again. only the one made it.. I 'm pretty sure who and what caused it though. The dummy that kept some stuff here, took the eggs from Mom and sprayed them with water to seperate them to fit in the bin.. Spraying newly hatched eggs= Big no no!

It might have been ralph. But didn't he say that he THOUGHT he would never breed them or something like he had no INTENTION of breeding them? I may be wrong but I don't recall a definitive statement about never breeding them. At least not in that video.

[JASBALLS]

It might have been ralph. But didn't he say that he THOUGHT he would never breed them or something like he had no INTENTION of breeding them? I may be wrong but I don't recall a definitive statement about never breeding them. At least not in that video.

CALL HIM if you doubt HIM!

[rabernet]

Look at the caramels with the kinks. I don't recall the guys name who had the video of them, I am terrible with names, but if you listen to him he never says he won't ever breed them.

Was it Ralph Davis' video you saw? He had one recently (in the last two weeks) that he posted with two males with kinks that he kept.

Edit - slow with the post! LOL

[JASBALLS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baquu5GYyVA

[rabernet]

Same for the wobbly headed spiders. Cull the wobbly ones, the rest get stronger. I can see giving them one chance to determine if they are carriers, but why breed them when you know they are?

There are some who would argue that ALL spiders spin to some degree. Some have a very subtle wobble - and some are trainwrecks.

[FloridaHogs]

In a perfect world, yes. However, knowing the little I do about genetics, there is a 50-50 chance that normal appearing animals do not have the genetic predisposition to throw one eyed babies. Those I would give the chance to have babies. If they then threw one eyed babies, no more breeding.

So going by this thought process, the parents would have to be culled because you know they are carriers?