Jen Harrison Split from Big Daddy's Wholesale Thread

[wilomn]

Why isn't anybody lambasting the guy who sold the infected animal to Jen in the first place and is still selling reptiles? Has knowingly infected more than one collection. Why isn't anybody going after that guy, instead of someone who has made every thing quite public? Just seems kind of screwed up to be throwing stones at someone who has put everything out there for the entire reptile community to see, but ignore the originator of the entire problem who refuses to acknowledge he did anything wrong or that there is a problem. Just a thought you might want to consider.

No I did not open mouth and insert foot, what I did was ask a question about what was happening on THIS forum. If everybody is going to bash Jen on this forum, then they need to address everybody involved in the whole stinking affair. Not everybody reads fauna, just as everybody does not come here. If the situtation is going to be addressed on a forum, then it ALL needs to be addressed. Just my point of view.

Perhaps if YOU could write what you MEAN to say and not leave it up to readers to infer what you MEANT to say, you would not have FEET in your mouth.

You never mentioned any one site in particular yet you did ask why no one, inferring everyone on the internet by my reckoning, was going after wyatt.

They have been, they will be, they are. Just because YOU don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist; such as the outing of wyatt, yet another scumbag.

[starmom]

Jen~
I was following this tragedy when you were posting it on the TSK forum that you moderate. My heart broke for you and for what you went through and are still going through.
I can't be you, but I can try to place myself in your shoes. I can hear that you care deeply for your snakes and also have a good time breeding and sharing your love of these snakes with others. This is a passion shared by most everyone on this and several other forums.
I hear you when you say that you simply can not cull the rest of the snakes who were exposed to this deadly and new virus and I can appreciate the compassion you have for those snakes.
I do wonder if your passion and compassion has perhaps clouded your better judgment with regards to trading or selling or even fostering reptiles that will eventually leave your home and go to the home of another person.
I question whether you can honestly say to yourself that no harm will come to the snakes at any time in the future, and this question is really what you need to answer after looking deeply inside yourself. I believe that you already have the answer and are trying hard to come to terms with it. You love your snakes!
Regarding the extremely abhorrent private message that you received: I believe that since you publicized it (instead of simply answering it privately) you engaged in some sort of attempt to allow people to see that you are trying to do the right thing. However, by making the document public, I believe that you now have the added responsibility of placing the author's name to it.
I am not using any little emoticons because there is none for the tone of voice that I have used throughout this post. I am speaking in a compassionate and empathic voice. I really feel for where you are right now and I really feel for the sorrow and pain and hassle that you have been through.
The only piece of advice that I feel I could bestow upon you is this: You have been through a lot of pain and loss. Try to take some time off, away from new snakes and away from breeding, to process all of the loss and move through the grief. I really believe that, for you, clarity will come through healing.
All my best, McKinsey

[wilomn]

You know Jen, what Mckinsey said was right.

I am not always easy to take, I prefer to speak very plainly so there is little room to doubt what I say.

I have said the same things to you in fewer words.

I too think you know what you need to do and are trying to admit that you know so you can.

Like bandaid removal, quick is better than slow.

I could continually grill you about who sent the pm to you, and I might if you don't tell us who, but I'd prefer not to.

I have nothing personal against you, I don't think you're a scumbag, not yet, you've just been handed the poopy end of the stick and now you need to clean up.

Work with colubrids for a couple of years, let your place clear out of whatever you had and then get back into balls if you want.

The only thing that's forever is if you send this to someone else. No one will EVER forget that you were warned.

Unfortunately, it's not just about you unless you want to completely close yourself to any reptiles going out or coming in. Period.

There is always the slight chance that even colubrids could carry this virus since we don't know exactly what it is much as boas and pythons can give it to crotalids, with whom they have very little in common.

There are just too many unknowns for you to breed anything and keep what you have.

In my opinion anyway.

So, who sent the pm?

[FloridaHogs]

Perhaps if YOU could write what you MEAN to say and not leave it up to readers to infer what you MEANT to say, you would not have FEET in your mouth.

You never mentioned any one site in particular yet you did ask why no one, inferring everyone on the internet by my reckoning, was going after wyatt.

They have been, they will be, they are. Just because YOU don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist; such as the outing of wyatt, yet another scumbag.

Now why are you so hostile toward me? I did not make a post attacking or defending anybody, and yet you jump on your soapbox and attack me? YOU assumed I meant the entire internet. I wrote exactly what I meant to the people posting on this thread, the intended audience. I was completely aware of what was on fauna about Wyatt, however, there may be some newbies reading this thread that are not.. I am not an idiot, nor new to the game.

Take it for what it is worth, but some of the post on this thread have shown an incredable amount of immaturity. There are ways to speak and get thoughts and ideas across without sounding like immature jerks.

Since this is going off topic, I am done, unless it directly applies to this thread. Frankly, this conversation is not productive, nor worth continuing.

[wilomn]

Now why are you so hostile toward me? I did not make a post attacking or defending anybody, and yet you jump on your soapbox and attack me? YOU assumed I meant the entire internet. I wrote exactly what I meant to the people posting on this thread, the intended audience. I was completely aware of what was on fauna about Wyatt, however, there may be some newbies reading this thread that are not.. I am not an idiot, nor new to the game.

Take it for what it is worth, but some of the post on this thread have shown an incredable amount of immaturity. There are ways to speak and get thoughts and ideas across without sounding like immature jerks.

Since this is going off topic, I am done, unless it directly applies to this thread. Frankly, this conversation is not productive, nor worth continuing.

Indeed and LOL.

[JenHarrison]

The same person that was defending Allen Belcher and said he was "never coming back".

Max, I have the energy to buy snakes now because I had been told that it was safe to do so and that my remaining animals were safe to be bred. I still have many of my morphs and beloved pets. If I have to destroy them all and start completely over again, I won't have the will, the energy, or the money to get back to where I was. That's what I was talking about.

Tosha, the entry right after that one you quoted discussed the delayed antibody development and that it nullified the negative test results because the sample females had only been sick for a couple of weeks, which sent everyone back to the OPMV link. Now they're redoing the testing. Perhaps I should go clear it up more. One thing that I keep wondering is that you yourself said you have purchased animals from Wyatt -- and there is no proof as to how long this virus has been in his collection. How do we know that your animals aren't asymptomatic carriers? Or anyone else that has purchased from him in the past? If there is such a big risk with my remaining animals that have never been symptomatic, wouldn't there be a similar risk with your animals from Wyatt?

Jas, the 3 vets working on this case are reptile specialists. Dr. Mark Gordon is the reptile and exotics vet at Fitchburg Animal Hospital -- he is also a lab professor and researcher at the UW Vet School and professor at MATC for their vet tech course. He was previously a veterinarian for the Dept. of Homeland Security. Here is his profile:

http://www.fitchburgvet.com/html/medical_staff.html

Dr. Elliot Jacobsen is the Professor of Zoological Medicine at the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine, has a Ph.D. in zoology, and has researched many reptile diseases and published reports/articles on his findings. Here is a profile on him that also lists his publications:

http://sacs.vetmed.ufl.edu/Faculty/jacobson.htm

The third vet is Wyatt's other victim -- Dr. Jason Brodnik, a veterinary laser surgeon at the International Veterinary Academy of Pain Management in Colorado -- aside from specializing in reptiles, he also keeps and breeds many different species himself. Those are the 3 vets working on this virus -- and I think they're about as qualified as you can get.

Alicia, it isn't about the money. But I wouldn't have purposely kept a large collection if I hadn't planned to breed it and use the offspring to gain other animals that I wanted. Not to mention the fact that 90% of my remaining animals are not exactly nice or handleable. It's quite expensive to feed and maintain this many just to keep them as pets, especially when I can't see or touch them. If it comes down to the fact that I have to destroy them, then I will be doing so except for my 2 true pets. I will keep Spoon and Lucky and be thankful that I still have them. But it doesn't change the fact that everything I enjoyed has now been ruined and there seems to be no way to fix it or continue on.

I'm going to repeat this info again to clear it up for a final time, since some just can't seem to understand it and keep spreading rumors and bringing it up. I have not sold, traded, or adopted out a single animal since well before this virus arrived. Nothing has left my collection except for dead bodies that went to the labs. I had my '08 babies reserved by quite a few people, but have since cancelled those reservations. I have not recieved a single donated animal, thus have not sold or traded anything from anyone.

So what is the general consensus -- what would it take for people to trust my offspring? Killing everything I have? Or going a few years without any problems?

[belvis]

Jen or i mean>>>>JUDAS I love how you took are conversations out of context and used them to benefit yourself. You did this knowing i was disliked do to my Big Daddy posts. YOU will do anything to take the blame off of yourself. I love to cut and paste. So here is what you wrote me incase you forgot.

From Fauna after you edited your add.

Originally Posted by belvis
do you have any female pastels or mojaves?

-- I don't breed pastels, and I only had one female mojave but she's on hold at the moment. Let me talk to the person that wanted her and I will let you know if she becomes available again. I will have spiders in 3 more weeks, the clutch is due to hatch on the 20th. Thanks!
__________________
~* Jen *~

From here on Thursday--------
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenHarrison

i'm still waiting to hear from you about that female mojave you had on hold for someone. Let me know

Hey there -- I haven't heard back from her yet. I e-mailed her to see if she would prefer 1.1 spiders instead of 1.1 mojaves, but no reply yet. I'll let you know when I do.

After all that has been dramatized in the last 48 hours, you're still OK buying from me? I have tried to make it as clear as possible that my babies are just fine, and that my vets cleared them to be OK. I just wonder if some people will still be turned away by the idiots that have no idea what they're talking about. You know?


Jen-----------------why don't you post the other PM i sent you???????????????????????????????????

Since you love blaming other peolpe----I guess you won't------------I Will

My other PM to you------------Friday
Well i wish you the best of luck----i did not mean for you to sell sick snakes, i meant for you to distance yourself from these people, you'll be better off in the long run. If everything goes well with your snakes, go public. If its 2 years from now, these same people will give you the same . By the looks of half their pictures, they need to worry about their nasty dirty selves instead of Big Daddy's dirty cages. Obviously they love to attack people from behind there computers.

look back at last month, all they did was attack JNJ----then it was Big Daddy, now you.

if you want to be a Judas, go ahead-----i'm only judging you unbiasly, unlike your so called peers.

You new I was not going to write on here again----are you that dumb to think I wouldn't follow up with this? To think I Stood up for only to get stabbed in the back------Jog OFF

[BT41042]

Oh boy...I ain't even going to start...
BT

[Gary Orner]

Jen,

You have outs. I am not going to comment on you selling anything now. As it has already been posted by many. But you have outs. here they are.

You want to continue to breed. You want to continue to keep the animals you have. And you have stated that a few breeders have offered you snakes for nothing. This to me tells me you have outs.

I would seperate the animals you have now. I am not 100% on how this virus works as you have said it is new. So I would get another building or place to keep them or the new animals you have been offered. If it were me I would not be keeping the "infected" animals in the same building.

But you have an offer from some very kind people to help you out and get you back to where you say you once were. So you say you do not have the money or will to rebuild but you have some great people guiding you?!?!

The other way to go is step back for a few years. You now have babies to grow up to see how they react. Right? This will help in the studies about this virus. Come back once more is known.

I read your story. It sucks. I would not wish it on anyone. And I know you would not either. That is where some are coming from. There is a risk no matter how small it is when you sell them babies.

Talk to these fine people that offered you snakes for free. Work with them. I would find a new place for the new snakes if it were me. New cages and everything. That is me.

The steps are there Jen. All you have to do is take the first step and then the next. You will be at the top soon enough if you do not skip a step.

Good luck
Gary

[fishmommy]

I think that you might not have to destroy the extra snakes. You could sell them to people as pets but make sure that these people are not selling/trading or giving away animals - they would need to be people who aren't going to suddenly need to get rid of their collection a couple years down the line as well. They would have to be people who are known as established/stable and trustworthy. I have no doubt that you would fully disclose the situation.

The goal is to prevent the spread of the virus.
I know there are many people here and on other forums who do not breed/sell/trade animals who might go for one of these animals.

I'd like to think there are ways to get you out from under the extras without resorting to euthenasia. I'm sort of naive though.... so everyone should feel free to jump in on their opinions of this idea. I'm prepared to be shown the error of my ways if I am wrong

It would be ideal if you could manage to sell your non-pet balls under controlled circumstances and allow you to take the couple years off with just your pets. Then you can continue pursuing your dream