Jen Harrison Split from Big Daddy's Wholesale Thread

[SPJ]

It's just sick - she's even picked up some females from a pet store and is selling them cheap on the SK forum And the idiots are cheering on her rebuilding efforts

I'm sorry but she needs to stop taking in new animals and selling animals!

[JenHarrison]

Who said I'm selling donated animals? I haven't recieved anything from anyone yet, and I would never sell something that was given to me. I don't know where that came from.

Jas, my ad was for offspring deemed clear by my vet team. Not for any of the animals that were here during the infectious period. So, I have not been selling sick animals as you say.

Tosha, you feel that the eggs should never have been incubated. Opinions are like...well, you know that whole line.

Wes, when everyone first shredded me for quarantining in a separate rack but same room, I was repeatedly berated and told it had to be a different room altogether (which I had to learn the hard way). Now when I decide to actually do exactly that and use a different room, I'm being told that that isn't correct either? So what about the hundreds of other keepers whose home-based breeding efforts have quarantines set up in extra rooms? I guarantee you only a handful of people that breed snakes have an entirely separate building to quarantine in. You tell me to "grow up and stop making excuses for why I'm keeping them" -- there are no excuses. I'm selling the offspring that I hadn't intended on producing and that I was told would be PERFECTLY HEALTHY. I'm not attached to these babies -- they don't even have names. But the adults that I decided not to unnecessarily kill do have a lot of emotional meaning for me, and I don't in any way find that immature or an excuse.

As for why I'm rebuilding and buying selective new snakes -- BECAUSE MY VETS TOLD ME IT WAS JUST FINE TO DO SO. Why would I not listen to them when they're top in their field? From Dr. Jacobsen's article on OPMV:

There is no specific treatment for snakes showing clinical signs of OPMV infection. Since most affected snakes die with severe gram-negative respiratory tract infections, treating ill snakes with appropriate antibiotics is indicated. 2 months should lapse following the last death from OPMV before introducing new animals. The aminoglycosides, gentamin and amikacin, in combination with a cephalosporin such as ceftazidime [what we used], are the drugs of choice. Cages of ill snakes should be cleaned and completely disinfected with a solution of 0.15% sodium hypochlorite. Chlorox is 5.25% sodium hypochlorite; a 1:33 dilution can be used. Cages should remain empty for at least 2 weeks before introduction new animals. [all of which was done repeatedly -- all tubs were discarded and new ones purchased]

If the information given by 3 reptile vets isn't valid enough for the handful of people here (despite being more than enough for plenty of other people that have been contacting me about this and supporting me), then I don't know what I can do for you. This has been the hardest damn thing I have ever gone through -- and regardless of the right paths I try to take by throwing thousands of dollars at veterinary research to get this nailed down and proven while everyone else that got it hides it and gets to continue on unscathed (right down to Wyatt and his loser girlfriend still being allowed to post ads for their infected snakes on Kingsnake, but I'm banned), and getting my vets' confirmation multiple times before doing anything like bringing in new animals or selling babies, I'm still wrong no matter what and thrown into dog cage. I have pulled all of my ads and notified the people that had reserved my babies. I am not selling any of them. At this point, I don't know what to do any more. I don't have the resources to completely separate my remaining established animals from any new ones (all new additions are already in quarantine in my bedroom -- in entirely new racks, tubs, with new heating equipment, everything. Nothing else is in that room except the new snakes), because apparently 2 different rooms wouldn't be good enough, even when there is no longer any active infections within my first collection. I don't have the resources to start all over again with snakes, regardless of what people say they're going to "donate" to me, because no one is going to give me an 800g male clown or my perfect golden spider male or the 600g g-stripe that has been here on breeding loan this entire time. And I do not have the heart to kill my 2 beloved pets that I was so terrified of losing in the first place -- Spoon and Lucky mean the world to me and I cannot bear the idea of not having them. I will not accept that. The things I've been buying recently have been a couple new ball pythons but mostly kingsnakes. My vets said that they'll be safe as this was obviously a ball python strain -- but according to the wolf pack here, I'm sure my vets are wrong on that too. Maybe I should just kill everything and sue Wyatt for every last penny I've sunk into vet bills and lost in all the dead animals. Like I'd really see anything on that...I won't see squat, and it wouldn't make this any easier anyway.

Since everyone here seems to have opinions, why don't you all tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do? You're the ones I have to deal with if I want to continue in this hobby, so tell me what would make you feel confident in me and my animals?

[LadyOhh]

Lets look at it this way...

You are your own customer, and you are willing to take the responsibility of buying an animal that may possibly die and carry a deadly virus. THEN!!! A few months later, it does die, and all of the rest of your collection dies as well.

You are lost, upset, furious at the world..

Sound familiar? How would you feel if you inflicted that on someone else?

[JenHarrison]

That risk has been eliminated.

I have pulled all of my ads and notified the people that had reserved my babies. I am not selling any of them.

[wilomn]

That risk has been eliminated.

Jen, it has NOT been eliminated so long as any animal comes from you.

Even your own vets have said SHOULD NOT, not WILL NEVER, in regards to your snakes shedding the virus again.

Two rooms in the same building, seperated by a door that is not airtight is the same as keeping them side by side.

You asked, so here it is.

EVERY ball python you had, have or will have in the next season should be removed to another building for at LEAST two years or destroyed. You cannot say DEFINITIVELY that nothing will come from your snakes.

You skate on the edge of the line to justify what you do and in this case, where an outbreak could do to others what was done to you, it is inexcusable.

It sucks but you know, deep down, that the above is the ONLY way to really make sure your snakes are safe.

Just like some have done with IBD in boas, euthanizing entire collections including otherwise healthy snakes to PROTECT OTHER KEEPERS, so should you do now.

You asked. I answered. I am not happy to have the opinion I do, but it is mine. The poopy end of the stick is no fun, but you've got both hands on it right now. Keep it and be known for smelly fingers or let it go and build again.

[JenHarrison]

The first option is not possible, so the second option it has to be I guess. You're right, to protect others. I will not be rebuilding.

[rabernet]

Jen, what happened to your vet tech friend who was going to be where you quarantined new animals, in a completely different location?

Also, have you scanned the reports from your vets that identified what this virus is, it's pathology and treatment? I've only read what you've said they've said - but I don't recall actually getting to read a detailed finding from these three vets you're working with. That's troubling to me as well, since we can only go on what you say they've said.

[rabernet]

I don't have the resources to start all over again with snakes, regardless of what people say they're going to "donate" to me, because no one is going to give me an 800g male clown

When did Hollywood die? I was pretty sure I read he was one of the survivors?

[fishmommy]

it seems like a simple solution to me - just don't breed for at least a couple of years.

if you need the money, do something else for awhile.

it sucks that this happened to you, but life is often a real bear.

[SPJ]

Jen,
To answer your question, I have heard from a few people that you have been given expensive morphs for free to help rebuild your collection as well as normals and have sold some of them.


BTW,
What happened with KS? Why were you banned from there?