can a python tell whos its owner is?

[littleindiangirl]

I always try to think of snakes as very simple minded creatures, working with some very old, steadfast and hardwired brains. Their first need is to survive. Whether that be through hiding, fleeing, fighting, mating... they all have the very basic need to survive.

I believe they work on some very basic instincts, and can learn easy simple patterns if repeated often enough and in an environment that makes them feel secure.

If your snake recognizes you as the warm object that does not drop him, then kudos! That's all he thinks when he smells or feels you. Your the big thing that bothers him everyday while he's trying to sleep. You have been holding him and teaching him to tolerate being held by you. He feels safe enough that you wont eat him. Good job.

When you put him back in his cage after holding him, he will either go to the place he knows as home, or he will try to flee in distress. Or as some call it "Come back out to play with me".

We make it our mission to direct our snakes back into the dark hide inside their tub. We show them the dark entrance, and they usually make a run (or slither) for the hide. The only dang one who refuses this is the boa. He is neither secure with us, nor wants to be held. We are still working with him. lol.

I also believe that some snakes are more skiddish than others and can be worked with everyday, but deep down their hard wiring wins out. Wild animals aren't supposed to be comfortable with us to ensure their species survival, some don't ever get over that.

[NightLad]

I always try to think of snakes as very simple minded creatures, working with some very old, steadfast and hardwired brains. Their first need is to survive. Whether that be through hiding, fleeing, fighting, mating... they all have the very basic need to survive.

For the most part I do agree with much of what you've said. The only thing that I take minor issue with is how you word your statements as solid and undeniable fact. If they were either, than this poll (or debate in general across the herp world) would not exist. I believe that a lot of this discussion boils down to personal observation and the conclusions we've reached. Other people, however, have also observed their animals and reached different conclusions. While I may not agree with all of them, I can't tell them they are 'wrong' without being able to provide some empirical evidence beyond my own beliefs and observations.

The poll question was simply, "can a python tell who its owner is." Your answers would seem to indicate a 'yes', although contain a distinct disclaimer against the possibility of love or long-term memory. That's fine. As I said, for the most part I do agree.

Yet I can't shake the thought that perhaps some people really do have snakes that are 'smarter' (able to retain long term memory) than others. My parents have 2 dogs (same breed), and it may not be nice to say, but it is clear that one of them is vastly more intelligent than the other. If we were to judge all dogs by the 'dumb' one, it would do a disservice to the species. Hopefully one day the research will be done to fully probe the learning/memory capabilities of these animals.

I do respect that you are helping shed some 'reality' on much of snake-ownership. I think it is often too easy to romanticize a hobby that we love. This can often lead to unpleasant situations, mostly for the snake.

[littleindiangirl]

Yet I can't shake the thought that perhaps some people really do have snakes that are 'smarter' (able to retain long term memory) than others. My parents have 2 dogs (same breed), and it may not be nice to say, but it is clear that one of them is vastly more intelligent than the other. If we were to judge all dogs by the 'dumb' one, it would do a disservice to the species. Hopefully one day the research will be done to fully probe the learning/memory capabilities of these animals.

I think that is entirely true, and had I been asked about it, I would have expanded my theory. I think mammalians, avian and other species are quite capable of higher thought processes that respectively show their intelligence.

I also believe that some species of snake and reptiles are more adept at learning than others. Ball pythons not excluded from this list either.

I also believe that a BP's or any snakes hard wiring often plays a huge hand in how they express their intelligence. Ball pythons as we all know are very secretive by nature. I think this need to be safe and in hiding constantly hinders the way they show intelligence.

Since snakes don't speak, wag their tales, cuddle, chase after us in the fashion of more common pets, we have to interpret their simple body language, behaviors and habits to determine the "intelligence" of each snake.

As always, all of my answers have given a yes, but with a very long addendum attached. I do not think they recognize us as owners, or someone that they need to survive. I think they can recognize us on our respective scents, actions, and "vibes", but perhaps not fully understand that we are separate beings from everyone else. I like to think of it in more of terms like: snake is secure with this and insecure with that.

Well, now were just going into a lot of speculation and philosophical stuff... so I should just stop before I start confusing everyone.

Lets just say, I have a very simple, basic view of snakes intelligence and ability to reason that relies heavily on instinct and less on learning.

[CRAZY]

Here Here. Alot of people think that snakes are downright stupid and feeling less because of their small brain size. But in all fairness to the snakes, there is not alot of space taken up, like for us and other mammals and even a few retiles, by movement. I'm not saying snakes are the smartest creatures, I'm saying there is definately something going on in there wether it is "Gotta Get to that hole" or "I feel safe" which just proves that, in the facts of instincts and such, there has to be at least a happy, angry, and scared feeling programmed and hard wired into their brains. And chances of having long term memory is slim, but once again there is that almost isntinct part about it. Like when you smell something and you can't quite remember what it is but the smell makes you feel happy and safe or sad and scared. Which yet again, in my opinion, up holds my opinion of yes, a ball python can tell who it's owner is.

[steveo]

i selected yes as i have witnessed this sort of behaviour in retics

[TheMolenater2]

I think they can recognize their owners because mine likes me but doesn't like my mom. lol

[frankykeno]

I've always thought it a bit funny, or perhaps persumptious, that we humans judge intelligence in other creatures by our own human yardstick.

Our brains are bigger than a snake because we required through our evolution as humans, the ability to build social networks and so forth in order to survive. We are afterall one of the physically weakest, least able to survive unaided creatures ever created on this planet of ours. Most animals born captive or domesticated can still adjust quickly to a wild life if they must. We humans - not so much.

For me, I don't judge the snakes on my human experience. I don't care or wonder if they "love" me. That I have the ability to love them enough to care for them, worry over them, plan their lives and do what it takes to ensure their continued health - that's enough for me and likely a pretty decent deal for them.

[TheMolenater2]

I've always thought it a bit funny, or perhaps persumptious, that we humans judge intelligence in other creatures by our own human yardstick.

Well said

[Mindibun]

I don't even want to get involved in this debate because Ive spoken my mind before. This is a never ending argument and I don't think my two cents thrown into the pile will result in a conclusion. BUT, I would like to comment on something Connie had said:

If your snake recognizes you as the warm object that does not drop him, then kudos! That's all he thinks when he smells or feels you. You're the big thing that bothers him everyday while he's trying to sleep. You have been holding him and teaching him to tolerate being held by you. He feels safe enough that you wont eat him. Good job.

When you put him back in his cage after holding him, he will either go to the place he knows as home, or he will try to flee in distress. Or as some call it "Come back out to play with me".

It seems to me that you feel very strongly about your views on the matter, and so you're presenting them as fact. I respect your views, and happen to agree with some of them. I also understand that we all have a tendency to blur the line between opinion and fact from time to time. But in this instance I wanted to speak up about it. The examples that you've given there are completely dependent on each individual snake and handler. When you say, "If your snake recognizes you as the warm object that does not drop him, then kudos! That's all he thinks when he smells or feels you." Well, you don't KNOW that's what he's thinking do you? This whole debate got started because NO ONE knows what the snakes are thinking. Also, you said, "You're the big thing that bothers him everyday while he's trying to sleep." And this varies by handler. Personally, I rarely pick up my snake when she's sleeping. If I need to clean or whatever, ok - that warrants bothering her. But otherwise, I wait until I see her out and about to handle her. It's unfair to assume that EVERYONE is always "bothering" their snakes. And one last thing: "When you put him back in his cage after holding him, he will either go to the place he knows as home, or he will try to flee in distress." Again, this will vary by each individual animal. My snake rarely returns to her hide after a handling session. She'll usually cruise about the tub for a little while (probably checking to make sure I didn't change my mind and decide to drop in a mouse). She doesn't "flee in distress" and she doesn't go back in her hide.

You even state here that it varies from snake to snake:

I also believe that some snakes are more skittish than others and can be worked with everyday, but deep down their hard wiring wins out. Wild animals aren't supposed to be comfortable with us to ensure their species survival, some don't ever get over that.

So I don't really think it's fair for you to push your views on others as hard facts. State them as your opinion only. We all have different opinions on the subject and we're all entitled to voice them. But we should try to keep an open mind. At least, that's how I feel about it.

Edit: I wanted to add that I think the number of animals a handler has in their collection can make a difference as well. For instance, Connie (I'm sorry Connie. I don't mean to pick on you, it's just that your name is in my head now.) has quite a few animals in her collection and she doesn't feel that they can recognize their owner or feel "loyalty" towards that person. I, on the other hand, only have the two animals in my collection. Naturally, I am able to spend more time with each and I *do* feel that they are capable of recognizing their owner. Maybe this is because I have spent more time with my animals so they "know" me better, whereas Connie has spent less time with her animals so they haven't gotten to "know" her as well.

This is just an example, and only a hypothesis. For all I know, Connie has tea and crumpets with each and every one of her reptiles every afternoon. -lol- I hope I made myself clear. I must have edited this three times, just trying to rephrase things so that they made more sense. It's late and I've done the best I can do. I'm done now.

[redpython]

so what happens when a large constrictor kills its owner? Did it not all of a sudden recognize it's owner? i mean really...what in the world would YOU say to a person's family members who was a victim of this?

"Sorry about your loss, Randy the Retic must not have recognized XXXX."

To everyone who thinks their snakes knows them, loves them, misses them when they are gone, etc...please, please do not keep large constrictors that have the potential to kill you.