I need some moral support here people

[Igor]

Easy on the freedom rhetoric. You're assuming that animals comprehend and want something that's a human concept and value. I don't know if you can even make that assumption.

reverend...never did i say that snakes comprehend..you said animals..which animals are you referring to? because dogs do in fact comprehend some things, anyways yes snakes probably dont...but they become lazy animals in captivity...which proves my point that they dont reach their full potential in their life span as they would in the wild..i am not saying they comprehend that...but it doesnt make it that much better, right? i think we as humans with a concious mind CAN comprehend that they dont reach their full potential due to our own interests

[aaramire]

reverend...never did i say that snakes comprehend..you said animals..which animals are you referring to? because dogs do in fact comprehend some things, anyways yes snakes probably dont...but they become lazy animals in captivity...which proves my point that they dont reach their full potential in their life span as they would in the wild..i am not saying they comprehend that...but it doesnt make it that much better, right? i think we as humans with a concious mind CAN comprehend that they dont reach their full potential due to our own interests

how do you how these so called "lazy snakes" act like in the wild? who are you to say that these snakes dont exhibit the exact same behavior in the wild as they would in captivity? ball pythons are a ground dwelling species, and they spend most of the day resting in burrows underground, and only come out at night to hunt and such. I am pretty sure ball pythons do the same thing in their cages, they rest in their hides during the day and slither aorund their cages at night when we are all asleep. Have you ever asked your snake if he thinks he is living his life to the full potential? I bet he would say yes everytime he gobbles down a live mousie or rattie.

[spix14]

Igor...if you have such a moral problem with having a snake, then why do you have one? You personally feel that it's wrong and yet you still do it? I'd say that makes you far worse than the rest of us who you seem to be trying to guilt trip over having pet snakes. OH yes, I said pet. While they are not domesticated in a sense, they are used to humans...they depends on us for food, housing, and medical care...that makes them a pet.

So far as your whole mouse murder is wrong vendetta...so from what I can understand, it's ok for the mouse to be killed and eaten by the snake, but it's not ok for us to bring the mouse to the snake. I sure hope you're a vegan or that'd be a big fat load of hypocracy right there. What do you suggest we do? Tie our snakes to little strings and let them hunt their own food in a field somewhere? Let them starve?

If you have such a problem with both keeping snakes and feeding them their prey, then I am really at a loss as to why you are a reptile owner in the first place.

[tigerlily]

well that is not the context i meant it in...i meant cats and dogs have mental capacity to recognize us as their care givers...a cat can go wonder around on the streets and come back to you..that is what i mean by freedom..its purely domesticated..a snake wont, and YES I KNOW BECAUSE OF THE MENTAL CAPACITY...so dont argue that, but i mean its still a wild animal, and keeping it in a cage...for our own purposes, is a little bit wrong...however since we enjoy the hobby we still do it...i love my snake personally!!! but i can still think its wrong, that is my opinion on it, and again we are off topic...i still feed my snake live food...and i will probably do that for a while until i am satsifed he can eat f/t...but i STILL think its wrong to contribute to someone elses death, if some of you are such avid jesus followers...isnt it wrong to contribute to someone elses death? if that is the case, than keeping a pet snake is wrong, since they would thrive in the wild and nature would take its course

Why do you keep bringing religion into this? If you don't know what christians believe, then why are you even walking down this path? I am a christian, and I have no moral or eithical issues with snake ownership or husbandry.

You keep harping on things in nature. Nature and natural things are not necessarily so great. Most animals in the wild live very short lives, and never even survive to adulthood. Those that do face predators, disease, and the environment. Arsenic and mercury or completely 'natural', but harmful. I think you need to make that distinction.

Also, as far as contributing to someone's death. I take it, your a vegetarian? Otherwise, you contribute to someone's death on a daily basis. I do not believe that consuming another animal is wrong, so have no issues feeding my snakes. I mean, it's no different than what's in most dog foods but in a different package.

Obviously you are not going to find many people who are going to agree with you here. If we found it morally wrong, then we would likely give up our animals. I know I would. (if that happened to be the case) I think we'll have to just agree to disagree, as this agruement is going nowhere fast.

[Igor]

first of all...lets not get so defensive lol...cant you have a normal debate without getting so frustrated? i am not guilt tripping anyone, its just my opinion on the matter...relax bud....now theres a huge diffrent in the snake hunting and you bringing it food! uhh, like isaid i love snakes thats why i have one, and i dont NO I am not a vegan..i eat a lot of meat, i can see how you think its hypocritical, but your missing the point, i am saying that keeping a snake in the first place is not right, feeding it fits into a diffrent sub category of wrong...if we didnt value the beauty of snakes in the first place we wouldnt keep it as a pet, so iam saying your only doing it for ur own enjoyment...

[spix14]

So...you're saying that we are all (including yourself) just a bunch of selfish people for both keeping and feeding our snakes because they would have a much better life in the wild? Did I hit the nail on the head there?

And please don't call me bud. For one thing I'm a chic. This is hardly a normal debate when you are seeming to contradict yourself every other paragraph. I don't see the point of it. It seems like you basically just decided to make an observation stating we're all a bunch of putzes for having snakes.

[ChrisBowsman]

....so iam saying your only doing it for ur own enjoyment...

I actually decided to get my two snakes strictly because I think they're safer in tubs than in the wild. I derive no pleasure from keeping them whatsoever.

[aaramire]

I actually decided to get my two snakes strictly because I think they're safer in tubs than in the wild. I derive no pleasure from keeping them whatsoever.

haha nice

[Igor]

So...you're saying that we are all (including yourself) just a bunch of selfish people for both keeping and feeding our snakes because they would have a much better life in the wild? Did I hit the nail on the head there?

And please don't call me bud. For one thing I'm a chic. This is hardly a normal debate when you are seeming to contradict yourself every other paragraph. I don't see the point of it. It seems like you basically just decided to make an observation stating we're all a bunch of putzes for having snakes.

well i didnt call anyone anything....BUD...and please name one contradiction i had...i just stated my points, and thats it, i never called any of you selfish...i didnt say you are wrong for keeping snakes, i am just trying to give you another perspective and please stop pmsinG...i am not trying to aruge with you, iwant to have a debate...so relax..if your gonna freak out than dont say anything, i cant keep repeating what i said, just read what i said in the first place, that sums up my point!!!

[Igor]

I actually decided to get my two snakes strictly because I think they're safer in tubs than in the wild. I derive no pleasure from keeping them whatsoever.

so are you telling me both of your snakes are wild caught ball pythons? cuase if they are not, they wouldnt survive in the wild anyways...and if your so animal concious why dont you open up a zoo...and bring a lot of animals, obviously if u chose snakes you like them