Need to start accumulating information

[Beansidhe]

I'm a bit concerned here. By a few things. Playsand is okay for an adult, but not for a baby or a juvie under twelve inches

Babies are cricket hoovers, you can't overfeed them if you space out the meals, 2-3 times a day as much as he will eat in ten minutes. There is an old school thinking that babies are primarily insect eaters, recent field studies in Australia show that's wrong. Babies will eat a good bit of salad. I started my 2005 hatchlings on a mush made from greens, soaked Repcal juvie beardie pellets and cricketfood.com's Da Good Stuff in a food processor with a fingers worth of water. Mush with green gravy!
I have pics of hatchlings encircling the mush and diving in!

UTH are not the best, especially if you use sand...beardies love to dig. Anyway, the point is moot, this is a baby and no sand for babies period. I love Duck brand shelf liner, so easy to clean.
Even my adults get half marine carpet, half shelfliner, and they are smart, they've learned to poop on the liner. The adults get a tray of playsand to dig in on the side, And sometimes especially during the summer, it's changed to a tray of water for a soak if they want. Night time, if extra heat is needed, a CHE on a thermostat or rheostat is superior. Babies see all the colors of any light you try and it can disturb their sleep. Beardeddragon is correct also about UTH and how diurnal reptiles like dragons have fewer nerve networks on their dorsum to warn them when they could burn their little bellies. When I was a newbie, I had a UTH, but I learned from the real pros that they are useless at best.

I noticed someone recommended compact UVB. At the moment, until the manufacturers fix the problem, compacts are bad. They have been causing eye problems in many reptile species. Better to go fluorescent tube, like the Reptisun 10.0 tube for samll tanks, no smaller than a 20 gallon, and a nice Mega-ray MVB when you get a 50 gallon when the dragon becomes an adult. Of course, with a mercury vapor, a UVB meter can save you tons by measuring UVB output. I have had a few Megarays that have lasted well over 9 months putting out adequate UVB.

[Michelle.C]

Wow, he is nice! I still do not agree with playsand, Impaction is not what i am mainly concerned about,

here is Nugget,

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/IMG_0688.jpg

He is Citris.

What a beautiful Bearded Dragon!

[Beansidhe]

And for more information regarding the compact bulb problem:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/

[Michelle.C]

And for more information regarding the compact bulb problem:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/

That's really weird, I am missing the post where some recommended compacts.

[icygirl]

Icygirl: so you used a UTH? Why in the world would you do that? I really hope im reading that wrong.

In my personal situation, my UTH was in a place covered with sand where my dragon never dug holes, and he was very closely monitored. If he had started to dig around the UTH area, I would have removed it. I believed that the UTH helped to keep my temperatures up at night; maybe I was wrong. However, understand that I had a very healthy, happy dragon who never had a problem with burns. It just hurts when I hear things like "Why in the world would you do that, I really hope I'm reading that wrong!" as if I were a blundering newbie and knew nothing about beardie health. I'm not saying I was 100% correct, but you should try and choose your words more thoughtfully. I'm sure in the past you have said things that are not agreed upon by others, and I'm sure you would not like to be derided because of that.

Also, on the sand issue. I do agree that young dragons cannot be on sand as they are difficult to get out of their enclosure for outside feeding. It's not a good idea to handle very young dragons a lot. I believe that as they get older, sand can be a practical choice for some keepers - note I said SOME, as everyone has different preferences on this issue. When I wrote about sand as a substrate, I mainly had adult beardies in mind, so I apologize to Jay for not making that clear. Although I believe Jay already knew not to use sand for juvies, so like Bean said... moot point.

Also, I don't think anyone on here has recommended compact UV bulbs....

[Crazydude]

I dont think anyone here has argued playsand is ok for juvies or adults, In my opinion, a adult over 16" and over 1 year old can live on playsand fine. Just make sure the dragon has perfected his hunting skills so he doesnt scoop any sand in, and is not a licky dragon, Mine licks everything in site, so i dont use sand, It would be too much of a risk.

With impaction, babies digestive track has a kink in it, as they grow longer and wider, it stretches out, by an adult, or adult size, it is streched out, and strait, reducing the chance of a blockage. Thats why its safer for adults and not babies. But what people forget is impaction is also defined as the blockage of nutrients being absorbed to the body because of foreign residue. Take sand, sprinkle it down a wet straw, and run your fingers down it in a motion a muscle would make, and you will see, some will fall through, some will get pushed through, some will get stuck, and alot will line the inside, Over time this linning causes a blockage, less nutrients is absorbed, and eventually can starve. All because of a few licks of sand a day.

But in general, a full grown adult wont have blockage problems, but there is a chance over time to have a build up along the walls.

Anyway, I didnt see compacts either, I recomended against them, in my first post in this thread, and gave the same site. Anyway, i totally agree.

And i really think everyone needs to see the gray areas in care, there are great standards, but things can be done to reduce risks, making certain things exceptable, under the right responsible keeper, Like playsand with adults, though IMO not the best choice, with an adult there is little risk.

And as for the "Natural look", id just like to say, in the wild only a tiny percent survive past hatchling stage, even smaller survive to adults, mainly prey, impaction, starvation and fighting. So natural is not always Best. But besides that, in the wild they live on various forms of ground, Mainly hard packed red clay, that has a dusty covering, but also burnt down forests, and arid forests, Tree stumps, peoples gardens, and grasslands. You wont find any high levels of sand, just dust that coats clay.

Regardless, Good luck with your dragon, Give your mom some links to caresheets, make sure she knows exactly what shes getting into, and make her promise not to toss it when she is bored. I know it sounds childish, but its worth a try.

[Jay_Bunny]

I've warned her before about her habit of tossing animal but she doesn't listen. The best I can do is come to the rescue of the beardie when she gets tired of it. And I would rather her get a dragon from a show since it will be healthier to start out with than a petstore dragon.

I am fully aware that sand is a no-no for young dragons and thankyou for the info about the natural habitat of bearded dragons. I wasn't aware they lived on anything other than sand. Question..Without damaging the enclosure, is there anyway to duplicate that hard clay and dusty surface? If not, then I am fine with tile, reptile carpet, or whatever else is suggested. I would like a naturalistic enclosure for the dragon, but if "naturalistic" is going to be any sort of harmful I will not do it and go for something more practical.

Thank you for the information on the lights. I will definatly be getting good lighting as we had issues with a previous dragon and we didn't set the light up correctly and he wasn't getting the right amount of UV light. I won't make that mistake again!

Also, please lets not go knocking other keeper's husbandry ok. To each his own and as long as there is no harm to the dragon and it is happy and healthy, I see no problem with someone doing things their way. The UTH may not be the best choice in a heating element and may pose burning risk, but she explained how it was set up and she was prepared to act in case there was any evidence of it becoming a problem. The way I see it, that is responsible and we don't need to go knocking heads over it. Personally I will not be using a UTH and will stick with lighting to be my main source of heat.

I thank all of you for your information and I will definatly be doing further research on the bearded dragon. If my mother does not get one or does not get tired of hers, I may opt to get one for myself this summer if I feel I am ready to have one....or two..hehe.

[Crazydude]

Definitally try to go through a breeder, ask about the parents their history, size and health, lean towards larger dragons, not the small colorful ones, (big ones can be colorful too, just alot of small colorful dragons attract people and are not so healthy), and if you can, look into adenovirus, its something to know about when it comes to beardies.

Its hard to get natural, ive heard of a loam/clay/sand mix, but its hard to acheive really, I use tile, love it, i have ceramic thats sand colored, and now this earth tone one, both bumpy, uneaven and all unique. Many do 1/2 sand 1/2 tile for an adult, its safe to feed salad and have a water bowl on the tile side, but still have some digging room. A good compramise IMO, and if my dragon ever stops being so licky i may add some just to be safe as she is a female. Anyway, ive never actually seen a true naturalistic enclosure for any reptile, a bunch that look natural but dont to a good job of mimicing the habitat, it would be hard in any case. but i havent figured out the clay thing, sorry.

Anyway, a dragon is a great choice for yourself too, just remember they cant be housed together, so 2 means 2 enclosures. But they are a ton of fun, and really great.

[icygirl]

Another use for a water bowl is that, even if they don't drink in it, some dragons prefer to defecate in the water bowl.

I'd just use some nice tile at the bottom, like Crazydude said, and get some really beautiful and natural looking wood to put in there. I found some really nice pieces at a local pet store, and they really added a lot to the tank. Plus, they don't look as "fake" as some of the plastic pieces.

[Beardedragon]

In my personal situation, my UTH was in a place covered with sand where my dragon never dug holes, and he was very closely monitored. If he had started to dig around the UTH area, I would have removed it. I believed that the UTH helped to keep my temperatures up at night; maybe I was wrong. However, understand that I had a very healthy, happy dragon who never had a problem with burns. It just hurts when I hear things like "Why in the world would you do that, I really hope I'm reading that wrong!" as if I were a blundering newbie and knew nothing about beardie health. I'm not saying I was 100% correct, but you should try and choose your words more thoughtfully. I'm sure in the past you have said things that are not agreed upon by others, and I'm sure you would not like to be derided because of that.

Also, on the sand issue. I do agree that young dragons cannot be on sand as they are difficult to get out of their enclosure for outside feeding. It's not a good idea to handle very young dragons a lot. I believe that as they get older, sand can be a practical choice for some keepers - note I said SOME, as everyone has different preferences on this issue. When I wrote about sand as a substrate, I mainly had adult beardies in mind, so I apologize to Jay for not making that clear. Although I believe Jay already knew not to use sand for juvies, so like Bean said... moot point.

Also, I don't think anyone on here has recommended compact UV bulbs

Im sorry for that, i had just got done cleaning and i react to dust with puffy eyes sneezeing and a horrible headache
What im trying to say about UTH and sand is:

Beardies Cannot feel heat from their undersides, not only can they get burnt( which can be unlikely but possible) but for the fact that they cant feel it, there is no use for it unless they were laying upside down. Like bean said, if you want to keep night time heat up use CHE bulbs that do not emit any lights.

Sand: Like ive said before, impaction is not the only issue. When they poop the sand soaks up alot of it and normaly more than "spot cleaning" will pick up. If you use sand id compleatly change out the sand everytime they poop... That is not easy or fun to do!

Jay, if you want something that looks natural to them, id use tile. It is as close to the wild (packed down clay) as you can get. It is also very easy to clean, just take the tile out and scrub it off, and put it back in I used paper towels before i used tile, and cleaning was done in seconds!

Here is Nuggets tank( with his heat lamp moved for the sake of the photo) This was the day i moved him into it, he was not happy... take a look at his black beard!


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...IMG_0539-1.jpg